GolfHos

The Financial Times reports that " Paramount is poised to drop its support of HD DVD after Warner Brothers' recent backing of Sony's Blu-ray technology, in a move that will sound the death knell of HD DVD and bring the home entertainment format war to a definitive end." According to the Times, Warner Brother'srecent defection to Blu-Ray allowed Paramount to terminate their exclusive relationship with HD DVD. Universal Studios remains the only major studio to exclusively support the HD DVD format, though rumors have surfaced that their contract may also contain a termination provision similar to that exercised by Paramount."

 :'( if true.

nonetheless, i'll still be watching mine for many years ahead as i eventually snag a dual format  blowray/hd-dvd player down the road at the right price.


it is a shame that the far more consumer friendly format died at the hands of the excessively corporate friendly format thanks to inside payoffs and teenage gamers.  the least true part of it all (corproate speak) is that consumers made the choice.  60:40 over a year is not a "choice"

Paramount denies.

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601101&sid=aQMGgh2LV_bU&refer=japan

[sm_dontknow]

for now, i suspect.   :sad3:   they'll eventually move over  if BLU  catches any mainstream adoption,  UNLESS they (and Tosh and UNI) follow the strategy i laid out in the other thread.   

i suspect some of the titles i imported on hd-dvd (equilibrium, machinist, brotherhood of the wolf) will not be available within 3, hell, maybe 5 years even  on BLU  even if all studios went blu.  that alone would keep me from ever completely getting rid of my hd-dvd collection.   as long as there's something out there to play them,  i don't see the big deal .  (other than of course having to buy a blu player  puke heheh)  oh well. 



the funniest thing is i can't believe M$ is willing to roll over this easily and just accept  BD  as the defacto optical medium for the next generation xbox.  wow.

http://www.psu.com/87--of-owners-watch-Blu-rays-on-PS3-News--a0002355-p0.php


HDM is likely doomed.

87% of  BLURAY via the ps3 ?  which had a 4:1 or 5:1 (depending on sources) hardware advantage over hd-dvd standalones but could only yield a 1.7:1  software sales lead?   people must be renting a LOT more than buying.  what will happen when the ps3 finally gets a few 'killer app' games?   

 ??? [sm_dontknow]

I'm going to load up on HD-DVD in the coming 4-5 months.  I had six show up a few days ago (HP * 4, Evan Almighty and Knocked Up), four yesterday (Blade Runner, Queen Live, The Fountain and Pan's Labyrinth) and I *think* I have one or two more on the way (LOL).  I can think of a few dozen titles I'd like to have before they disappear from the market completely.

I'll buy a Blu-Ray player when the time is right.  It'll have to be a combo, it'll have to support at least 1.1 and it'll have to be under $400 max.  Or, since I have my A35, I might  buy a quality Blu-Ray only at about $250 or less.  There are a good few movies I want to own that will never be on HD-DVD now.  Worth it to me.

I agree.  HDM is dead, well, it's niche at best.  DVD will reign supreme for many more years especially with the nice job some of the players do in upconverting.  I'm not too worried about downloads.  It'll be at least three and probably five before bandwidth/storage make it even worth thinking about assuming you can get past the DRM issues.  Granted, there will be compressed 720p crap with cheesy audio before then but that doesn't float my boat at all.

'Twas a pleasant interlude.  No regrets.

i'm torn between getting 1 or 2 a35's  and closeting them when they go to 'clearance'  or getting a true dual format (would have to be dead on as full featured as a35 ) .  i'll buy full length extended warranties on them.  the odds are good they'll be working 8-10, maybe 15  years from now.  if by some chance players completely* disappear (which i doubt toshiba would ever completely kill legacy support, since making a bluray player go dual format basically only requires a different SOC and lens actuator... both of which are cheap) ... by that time, oh well.   


i'm still just shocked that that's all BD could do, if that many ps3 owners really watch movies on it.  those sales #'s are truly abysmal.  i just read on AVS (after staying away largely due to the incessant gloating)  that  in its entirety,  HDM was a $300M business in 2007. (about $170 for BD, $130 for HDdvd)   . behold the might of the BOGO!!!  even if the 'war' ends , prices are gonna have to go WAY down to make that HDM revenue viable.   what BD manufacturer is gonna undercut the ps3 on price?    and say that the masses do flock in in droves to all of a sudden adopt BD... where are the supplies of discs going to come from?  there's still just 10 manufacturing plants worldwide.
i know those disney ads look great to families at first, but enjoy sticking that BD in your car player or your kids bedroom tv  then having to go buy the movie again in SD.   

I've ignored all the chatter up til now.  From the standpoint of the average home viewer, what's the difference?  I'm not looking for rants about Corporate America, who does/doesn't respect copyright laws or use the DMCA as a weapon, etc. -- just what the Average Joe in his living room would see between the two formats.

Thank you. 


Same here.  Or at least the definitions, please.  is HDM the same as HD-DVD?

Does this mean that Blow Ray is the (apparent) winner?

My co-worker has his finger on the trigger, but hung on which to buy.

TIA.

Average Joe - nothing^*.  But he'll pay more for it now. 

The format war was actually good in some ways.  It generated a lot of chatter, effected price wars and made both formats better through competition.  Now that Blu-Ray has won the battle it gets to fight the war against DVD (and maybe downloads) and prices will likely level off at DVD+$10 with no BOGOs or package deals.  I think the BDA has its work cut out for it in thinking how it's going to move forward over the next two years.  I assume Sony won't be able to subsidize everything for much longer.  It remains to be seen if they can get to a place where the production costs will allow them to go head-to-head against DVD.

* J6P mostly doesn't know what he's buying, doesn't calibrate his display, runs HTIAB audio and so forth.  Not dissing anyone; it's just how it is.

Did it shake out that way during/after the Great Betamax-VHS War?

basically nothing,  in theory BD can offer superior PQ , AQ  due to larger storage capacity and bandwidth,  however, to date, they have not (had not) been shown to really do so.  this is due to the advancement of codec development and compression algorithms.  in fact, many BD (usa) titles can be imported as hd-dvd releases from europe  that feature better PQ/AQ  than their BD counterparts sold in BestBuy here.     the fact is most titles released in 2007 on either format were equivalent in maximizing their resources to create a truly cinema quality experience as long as the user has a good tv/ speaker system/ receiver.     hd-dvd players  offered internal decoding of advanced Audio so that older receivers could get the best sound,  many BD players do (did) not.  hd-dvd was a finalized spec,  bd still is not (that is the bd player you buy today might not play all future bd discs).   hd-dvd allowed users to buy/play region free discs from around the world,  bd does (and will ) not.   hd-dvd did allow the twin/combo format ( hd and sd playable on all hd-dvd/sd-dvd players) , while bd can not (and will never do so) so for average joe, it probably doesnt matter much, except if he buys a bd title, it will only work on his bd player.    prices without the 'war' will definitely not fall as fast as they were during the war.


for true movie/tv enthusiast/purists, a lot was lost however, particularly in the ability to import region-free titles (japanese movies, english tv shows, etc).   they will now have to hope some usa studio publishing on BD decides to buy the rights to the title and release it domestically.   that, and it will be much harder to rip a fair-use copy of their disc to their home theatre PC and play it that way across the home. keep in mind some BD players may even BRICK* if you insert a bd-r  (think dvd-r ) in them   due to excessive antiDRM bullcrap.

No, the more consumer-friendly ($$$-wise) format won.

not really, but that war was settled by the consumer, not studio backroom deals and diehard gamers.
almost all titles were released on both formats (not so with hd/bd) and people ultimately voted 70-30 across the board over about 5 years.

they voted for the most userfriendly experience with almost equal* feature quality.



this time they did the opposite- theoretically better feature quality and far less userfriendly experience. 

Without stooping to quibble with your implied definition of "true movie/tv enthusiast/purists," I don't think that demographic will ever drive the mass-market.

 :)

hdm= high definition media (encompasses all forms of distributing content in HD... aka hd-dvd,  bluray, etc)

and yes, blowray has bought their victory (barring a miracle announcement/strategy from hd-dvd group) before consumers could really decide.  however- it could be said consumers in general have so far decided  normal dvd  is still good enough when evaluated compared to HDM and HD/BD player pricing


at least as of now, if he buys hd-dvd he will only have access to films released on 2 major studios starting in may.   blowray will have access  to 5.   

true, but in general, these people are the most likely early adopters, and until this* format war, their 'vote' has set the standard for what would be come the format driven to mass market adoption (if it even reaches that point).

this time, studios and gamers decided instead.  do you think those groups ultimately care or want the same thing as movie diehards, purists/enthusiasts?   ;)

Of course.

But you'll see his point when you can't get region-free copies of Dutch assless-chaps pröñ in high def.

Don't care, frankly, who decides.  My interest is only in getting a decent product available to me in the marketplace.  Consumers don't generally choose which standard is adopted in the computer world, to my knowledge (e.g. wireless networking).

But you just said the average consumer distinguishes "basically nothing" between the two formats.

I'm going to guess that the majority of next-gen BluRay units will be backward-compatible with current BluRay discs.  If I read you right, the only negative of larger note is that a BluRay disc can't be played in a non-BluRay DVD player (like the one in my console or my computer) -- right?

I can appreciate taking a picture and having it last longer, but airfare has never been lower to The Netherlands.

who's to say that now the 'war' is over that product quality won't decline without the competition, at least at the same price point?  people just now buying in would never know the difference.  :)


sorry, i meant distinguish nothing  in PQ or AQ, not necessarily in features/convenience
even the average joe would notice the differrence between the hd-dvd combo disc he bought and could stick in his laptop, car, etc  and the bd disc that he can not.   (assuming both formats survived in perpetuity)

this will become a big issue to average joe in particular reference to Disney/kids films/etc.
hope he's ready to replace EVERY dvd player he owns, or at the minimum  buy  both BD and DVD versions  of anything his family watches in the 'living room'  if that living room is in hi-def

Ironically, the next-gen BluRay discs will not be backward compatible with current BluRay players.   [sm_disgust]

Not a huge deal as early adopters routinely take it in the shorts. 

I think PQ/AQ will, or would have been, a perceived benefit that swings back and forth between the formats depending on who you ask.  But region-free encoding and reasonable DRM are huge.  Add the fact that full compliance with the top BluRay spec is a year or two away (at least in affordable units) and we basically have a product that's not ready for the mass market.  HD-DVD is/was. 

There are more negatives than you see on the surface.  I was a HD-DVD fan but I'll take the blue pill at some point only mildly outraged and incensed.  But even as a relatively early adopter I'm waiting for BDA to get its *feces* together.  I expect that'll take at least to the end of 2008 and probably well into 2009.  That gives downloads a bit of a chance especially given J6P's penchant for accepting a 60% solution.  If downloads do take off, HDM is going to be hurting.  In fact, at that point the war between downloads and SDM will be as fierce as the current war between downloaded music and RIAA/CD and HDM will languish as niche or completely die.  I don't want to see that as I want a drawer full of little shiny discs I can call my own.  I think HD-DVD stands a better chance in the long run - especially if they could have pulled off across-the-board studio support.

UB raises the other key point i've been hitting at all along as well.

suppose all of a sudden the economy hits nice, and people buy hdtvs/player combos    or people with hdtvs already buy players. (say 10-20M+ new players in a month)

with hd-dvd , you can ramp up production 'overnight' and at 'no cost'  to meet worldwide demand.   with bd,  no way in hell.  you'd have disc shortages out the ass for 6 months+ .

Not to be a cynic, but could the impending future versions of BD be one of the reasons Warner jumped ship to BD? Most people like to have the newest versions of everything, so when the next generation Blu-Ray hardware comes out, people will want the BD titles that they already own in the new format. New formats=more sales for the studios. It's like Lucas and his *goshdarn* 20 different versions of his Star Wars films. It's the same *feces* with more and more special effects, but people keep buying it.

They should have just let the pr0n industry decide.

I don't know.  It's anecdotal but you read a lot of early adopters on highdefdigest.com and avsforum.com who say they won't even double up SDM and HDM.  This, I believe, is due to the nice job the better players do in up-converting.  I've purchased something like 50 titles on HD-DVD and only a couple are dups - only movies I really, really like.

I think BluRay 1.1 compatible discs will only sell to folks who don't have the movie already (other than a tiny percentage of adopters with money to burn.)  Plus there's no indication that 'new and improved' versions of existing HDM titles are in the works. 

The best people can hope for regarding the BD profile situation is that a new disc will play fine in an old player and they'll just be lacking the extra features.

Wireless networking is governed by a true standards body.  Its a much more sane version of coersion, money, and political games.



And I hate to interrupt aske in a conversation with himself, but both personalities are correct - the combo format that HD-DVD offered was/is a HUGE advantage to the consumer in the near and mid-term.  Uisce doesn't care about it, but both aske and I consider it a significant option.  One thats seems to be losing.

I'm not just disappointed because I have an HD-DVD player and several movies; I also, for full disclosure, hate Sony.

I don't want combos at +$5.  I'd much rather have the HD-only version and the Lincoln in my pocket.  If they were the same price, sure, that'd be cool.  In a BluRay world it becomes a bit different due to the Mouse Factor.  If I buy Cars it would be nice if it played in the minivan.  If I buy Reservoir Dogs, not so much.

that's what i was saying in the other thread

if hd-dvd has ANY chance left, they have got to get ONLY single SKU combo (or twin, even better)  out there on the market tomorrow for ALL new day/date titles from uni/paramount, and at most, $2 more than current sd pricing, at best, same pricing.

every SD purchase now plays in hd if you upgrade to a dual format or hd-dvd player.   that keeps them viable for awhile, and if they could somehow do it, they might could even bribe disney into it. this would ensure a long term stalemate.   at this point, they can never win, but they could maybe (though unlikely) avoid permanent death.  the question is does this make them more $ (should it work) than succumbing to the bda/sony-  i suspect not, but maybe pride/grudge says to do it.

 

The inability to play a BluRay DVD in a cheesy car-portable DVD player is a big negative to anyone with kids and who buys those kiddie movies in BluRay for home viewing.

However ... call me a cynic, call me a bad parent, but what little kid really needs to see Nemo in super-duper-high-definition as opposed to what the standard-DVD-format picture currently looks like on a home plasma or LCD TV?

well, call me a cynic, but assuming I had kid(s), and had to buy that crapola,  I'd want to suffer through it the least by watching it in hidef video/audio...   especially  for new releases ...  i can see maybe not rebuying-  animation does upscale decently  in VQ at least.

I'd call you a cynic but wanker just seems to fit so much better.

Assuming your point is valid, and I'm willing to concede it, why then wouldn't I support HD-DVD which gives me most of the non-kiddie titles in wonderful HD and up-converts DVD?  I don't necessarily need the HD audio on those kiddie titles and the up-conversion is pretty damn good.  Looking at your statement in a vacuum I'd advise you to just go buy a straight up-converting DVD player and sit out the entire war. 

I sure as hell wouldn't watch a non-up-converted (serial dash thread imminent) DVD on a 50"+ 1080x display though and I do watch some of those movies.  I love feature length animations.  Most of them are kick ass.

Perhaps the question is what the meat of the market's bell curve would really buy.  We have DVDs and we watch them, playing them on our old-school close-and-play DVD player and 42" plasma.  I have no idea what the resolution of the DVD-originating images are, but we don't start vomiting and suffering seizures when the movie starts.  In that respect, I have to think I'm fairly representative of the mainstream -- certainly more so than the videophile who demands to be able to see Denzel's pseudofolliculitis barbae in breathtaking clarity.

To be clear, though, I have agreed that HD-DVD was the better option for those with HD-DVDs, kids' movies, a snappy home TV, and a car DVD player.  I take you at your word that the immediate next-gen BluRay stuff won't be backward-compatible, but I have to think that subsequent generations will be, once the format settles itself and the electronics market can really start fooling around with player designs for it.

42" might be floating around the cutoff #.  We have 37" in the bedroom and I can tolerate SD on it.  I watch my Setanta/FSC up there.  I refuse to watch SD on the 56" downstairs.  I just walk away if someone has something on and I rarely if ever watch soccer on it.

Got my instant collector's item (http://www.highdefdigest.com/news/show/Industry_Trends/New_Line/New_Line_Details_Transition_to_Blu-ray/1351) yesterday. 

Wow.  That's a statement.

Truth.  100%. 

I guess (for now) I'm better for not looking into it.  I gathered from all the gab, that it was good.  I didn't realize it was that changing.  Well.  Soon as we move.  8)



I also can't believe I missed an easy softball soccer in any definition cheapshot.
slippin'

First: "Setanta FSC"?  IS that new code?

Second: is the standard DVD resolution standard-definition???  It looks higher than that on my TV.

Setanta is the boyhood name of Cúchulain.  Obviously, once you know that FSC just falls into place.  Hopefully that clears things up for you.


720x480 (I think).

You throw like a girl.

You better not be insinuating that girls can't throw well. :nono:

Errrrrmmmmm....  [sm_anon]

"Well, here's another nice mess you've gotten me into!"

Uisce: All right, then ... [throws her a baseball] ... hit me in the chest with that.
EAGLE: I'd kill you!
Uisce: Yeah?  From what I hear, you couldn't hit water if you fell out of a ******* boat.

The funny thing about that is that is exactly what put VHS over the top in the original "format war".