GolfHos

http://www.news.com/8301-13578_3-9864581-38.html

But aren't those jobs most merkan's are too stoopid to do, OP excluded of course. 

Look at all the ducked questions. Is that chart proof that Clinton's really a Republican?

possibly yes, but the 'influx' is pretty stoopid too most of the time, and apparently declining quickly by each year.  and if i'm gonna have to sit here and fix/do people's work for them, they might as well be 'merkans so at least the language barrier is less of an issue.

I've never really thought of that as a problem.  If someone is a specialist in engineering or some such thing, wouldn't it be better to bring the specialist here then to send the job over there?  At least this way there is a good probability of them working alongside of American citizens, thus keeping the jobs over here.  But if we send it there, there is more of a possibility of sending a lot of work over there.

not really, because they don't do the job that* much better, they certainly do it cheaper, and on the whole, the provide the declining motivation for 'merka  to do anything to improve its performance in sci/math in schools to catch up to the rest of the world again.

finally, it raises all sorts of questions on issues of  :airquotes: national security :airquotes:.  i'm not sure why you want to spend $$$ tax dollars trying to develop alternative energy, etc (you name possibly beneficial research area)  while letting foreign nationals do the work and take the knowledge home with them. 

How about this? Pay all H1B visa recipients in the form of Target and Home Depot gift cards. This will at least force them to spend their salary in this country instead of sending it home.

 [sm_laughatyou]

Most 'merkans are inherently lazy. They just want to do the job and get paid. There is less pride in the work they do. Now mind you I said most…there are people here that take great pride in what they do. I think one of the reasons people don’t take pride is they don’t understand what is a stake. They keep hearing about loosing jobs to overseas but until it hits close to home they just ignore it, and even when it does hit close to home some still choose to ignore it.

The problem with math and science nerds is that they're just too damned practical. Even when they do somehow "make it big" you don't see them buying 22-inch rims for their Escalades or dating supermodels or showing up at parties with their entourages. A little more conspicuous consumption by the most successful math and science nerds could go a long way in making such a career choice more appealing to the kiddies.

LOL, so true.  My friends at Google told me that just before their IPO the VP of Engineering had a baseball bat at a meeting and said he would use it if anyone showed up with anything flashier than a 3-series BMW.  And the last time I was in their parking lot, I didn't see anything especially nice.  Crapload of Priuses, though. (Prii?)

There is room for both of you to be right.

There is a distinct advantage to having the best and brightest minds in the world come here to work.  There are also others that are just here to work, being neither the best or the brightest.  But how would you discriminate?

What if the choice was letting someone have an H-1B visa or outsourcing that an the surrounding jobs?  Wouldn't it be better to let that one person have some of the knowledge than to to have all of the knowledge over there? 

Yes, I'd much rather that Americans fill the positions, but what if there aren't enough Americans with the knowledge to fill those jobs?  Don't get me wrong, I'm sure that because of the H-1B there are Americans that are having a harder time finding a job.  But I don't think eliminating the having the option altogether is entirely profitable.  Maybe adding/changing/setting certain caps would be helpful.  National security does need to be taken into account (I hadn't gotten that far in my thought process yet). 

The declining motivation for Americans to improve there skills is not completely the result of bringing other nationalities over here.  It's sad for me to say, but many American citizens get too comfortable with the luxuries they have and tend to forget that it was hard work that brought us here.  Not bringing in other peoples might show there is a need for the job, but that doesn't necessarily mean that Americans will decide they want to learn those skills. 

Right now, corporate entities are definitely seeing outsourcing as a cheaper way to get the "same" product rather than a damaging to the American economy.  It was a sad day for me to learn that even the dental industry is beginning to ship overseas. 

As you can see, I'm still thinking this through somewhat, so please be patient with me.

I'm all for promoting math and science among merkan students.  I myself am a casualty of laziness and apathy when it comes to exploring math and science fields.  Instead of choosing an engineering major in college which was the direction all high school aptitude tests lead me, I choose business with no particular skill designation like accounting/finance/mis.  This decision by an 18 year old was based solely on which path got me laid at a higher frequency.  In engineering I'd have to study my ass of to get by, which would make partying difficult.  And no group projects with sorority girls either in advanced calc 4. 

There in lies the problem people. 

im not entirely opposed to h1b.  i just dont think it needs to be expanded. (rather, i think it needs to be contracted somewhat... greater overall short and long term "socio-economic-national security" good)       when you are bringing in 60,000k people ... the "best and brightest"  they are certainly ALL not.  rickhicks point stands-  how do you tell who really contributes something that CANT be done natively,  vs  who is here to do something that CAN be done natively.   

*maybe i'm just biased because I see day-in, day-out  several people who are certainly in NO WAY  the best, the brightest, or the anything other than mediocre.   if there really aren't  merkans that can replace them,  we're doomed.

Oh, okay, I was reading as you were completely against it.

I'm not overly familiar with all that's required to obtain the visas, maybe you would know a bit more? I would say that a good amount, of proof in the form of their past projects with documentation of where they contributed to those projects to back up their said degree in said field rather than just a resume would be one thing.  Raising the amount that is (hopefully) already required might be of some help.  Also, I don't know if there's a line saying that if their work doesn't measure up to the "proof" they sent their visa would be revoked.  Then again, with "racial discrimination" being such prevalent issue with HR, would we really have that option even if it was provided?

Don't "h-1b dependent" employers now have to advertise the position here in the U.S. first now?  Has that helped somewhat? 

(60,000 - ohhh, I wasn't aware the number was that high.)

Aske, you're certainly experienced with those who have come over to fill said positions, so I would expect there to be some bias there based on such experience (especially if it's a negative experience).  The few I've known with h1-b visa, they seem to really have the capabilities needed to perform their jobs.  Of course, I haven't worked alongside them, and I realize that I'm not really one that would be the best judge of such, but the discussions I've listened to between them and a 3M employee have been very captivating with their depth and conclusions. 

I do recognize that one person's work can't reflect everyone's work as a whole.  I'm certain there are some that have been brought over that haven't been the help we had hoped they could be.  But I'd also like to think there are some that have been all that we had hoped and possibly more.