GolfHos

http://www.google.com/finance?q=INDEXDJX:.DJI    [sm_shock]

party like its 1999

We'll see.

Today's snow on the ground here could drastically effect FCOJ futures.

And nothing could be more meaningless for the average American.

Jamie Lee Curtis' boobies surrender!

Beef jerky time!

(http://i129.photobucket.com/albums/p203/kwirkeeness/beefjerkytime.jpg)

Not today

Its not meaningless at all - the average American has plenty invested in the market in 401k funds.  People nearing retirement age are paying close close attention.

But, jobs mean a whole lot more and they lag a market recovery by several months or a year.  So - we ain't 'there' yet.

Less than 50% of Americans have a 401k. Half of those have either raided their 401k to save their house or sold their remaining market holdings and ran screaming to money markets in the last year.

 These days the stock markets are a reflection of profits on products manufactured in any country but here. Not to mention the fact that the market resurgence has nothing to do with profits at all.
 If it wasn't for big ticket items such as aircraft, automobiles and military spending virtually none of the stock market would be reflective of American made products.

To the average American, the NYSE and the NASDAQ are a mirage. They are the companies that Chinese people work for.

Oddly, I haven't seen the acres of newsprint or hours of bandwidth spent by the Right Wing Noise Machine pointing this out during this recovery that I did during either Bush 'Jobless Recovery'. Wonder why that is?

I commend you for being realistic and consistent.

Next section NSFWingtards. Stop reading now.













This is the same bull*feces* argument the wingnuts made when speculators drove the price of a barrel of oil to 160 bucks and over. It was bull*feces* then, it's bull*feces* now. It's not that it isn't 'True', it's that the economic pain and suffering inflicted on the middle class is in no, way, shape, or form offset more than minimally by any gains they make in their 401k's or IRA's.

The real joke is that as soon as the bubble bursts (and supply side bubbles ALWAYS burst, some more catastrophically than others) even those minimal gains are washed away like grains of sand facing an ocean of greed, usually taking  part of the initial investment away with it.


It's time to put 'Trickle Down' aside. That *feces* does not work, and we have 30 years of epic fail for the average American to point at to prove it.

UNFORTUNATELY: It's become so ingrained in the economic thinking and policies of America, it's probably going to take a while to put it where it belongs. So, we're stuck with cheering a number that doesn't REALLY matter to most people.

Well... I'd hate to live with the depression some of you do.


401k programs and other market investments make more money for retirement than any other mainstream investments.  THAT is not meaningless is my point.  And yes, these retirement programs are own by 'average Americans'.  Its not a mirage at all.

I never claimed they would help you now, I never claimed a 'majority' of Americans benefited.  Its not as important as the unemployment rate, but its not meaningless either - a simple point is all.



As for the arguments of wingnuts, I'm afraid I don't pay that much attention to such things.  The market has downturns, but generates more upturn activity over the long term.  This is what makes it a good investment.  Sure, you do not want to suffer a downturn when you are about to 'cash out' so precautions should be taken as you approach retirement - but this is common sense.  When I look at the markets and other retirement programs, its easy to see the *feces* DOES work.


If it makes you feel better to rant on this forum I guess I should allow you that, but it would be wrong to let people believe its fact.

You seem to be confusing "The average American" with "The top half of middle America". Let me put it this way. When i walk out my front door and stand on my porch i can see approximately 20 houses that are owned by the occupant. Of these I can guarantee that no more than 7 of these families have 401k's or any substantial investments in the stock market.

They are "The Average American" living hand to mouth with none or little health insurance waiting for the other foot to drop.
They are, the roofer, the concrete guy, the guy that works in the auto parts store or the several like me that used to have good paying factory jobs that are gone for good to foreign lands. I know your thinking it's the auto industry. The Midwest used to be the center for all manufacturing, Toys, appliances, furniture just about any durable good. they are all gone now to China or Mexico.
 Even the ones that have 401k's only make enough to put a minimum amount in them after paying more and more of their health insurance every year and their employer quit matching long ago.
 You know that service based economy that they keep talking about? It's making "The Average American" a whole lot poorer everyday.

Lop the top 10% of wage earners off and then tell me what the average American makes a year and try to live on it and put something away for retirement. For every person that has money in the stock market there are 2 that don't. Which ones are "the average American"?

OTOH, God Bless America, because if I type the word 'Average' in my little Google toolbar thingy, here's what I get as the first option:

average penile length


LOL...

Clearly I'm using 'average Americans' in my point.  If you want to stick with a myopic definition of THE quintessential average American, you can have your opinion without argument from me.  But its a bit of a red herring.

As for all the other tangent arguments you're draggin into this.... you can have at your rant without involving me.

Certainly more interesting than the current arguments...

But I'm at work and am afraid to click it - what does it say?  Perhaps we can start a new debate.  :drama:

Is your investment portfolio better off now than it was two administrations ago?

I agree with MFAWG in that we are seeing a supply side bubble that will someday no idea when burst.  I'm not to worried about it all being young and what not.  

But my father and uncle who have real money in it are scared to death and in full Glen Beck hysteria mode.  They're biggest concern is the continued devaluation of the dollar with all the cash being created and the Fed maintaining low interest rates.  The other shoe will drop.  They saw interest rates rise toward 20%.  Gold prices hit historical highs.  People from Oklahoma know full well what hyper-inflation can do to accumulated wealth.  I mean it's pretty clear this recession was stag-flation.  

Hyperinflation devalues all the govt spending and the gains in the DJIA are not supported at all by extra GDP output in real terms of goods and services.  So we are all getting an inflation tax and have been for quite some time.  This effects the real avg american too since their real wages have remained stagnant or fallen in the last 10 years.  

Becktards think this is being orchastrated by the administration to make the US have no choice but turn to socialism.  This is where they have no credibility.  But the problem is real, has been for some time but the Fed keeps enacting short-term measures to make us happy for now.  To what extent does this blow up and when, I have no idea.  

Well since I was 19 in 1999 it is in the sense that now is better than not having one.  Plus I married into a much better investment portfolio.  Best move I ever made financially. 

Then your efforts would be better spent on lobbying for estate tax reform, rather than imagining we now exist in some sort of weird pre-inflationary hyper-monitized bubble (http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/10/09/beware-the-dollar-hawks/).

I mean, I traveled a lot to Japan in the 90's, enough to have a healthy fear of deflation/stagflation. 

Don't get me started on estate tax reform.  When my in-laws die they better have that all sorted out for the betterment of me. 

I'm far more concerned about "real" wages and the trade deficit than peaks and valleys of the DJIA.  Actually I'm more concerned about local issues like our public school system which I hope to be utilizing soon.  That and whether or not the State legislature will ever get off their butt and make English our official language. 

[drink]Here!  Here!![/drink]

Wouldn't this be more of a concern for Real 'Merkans as opposed to Average Americans?   [sm_devil]