GolfHos

To have presided over 9-11 AND The Great Financial Collapse of 2008 in the same term?

His legacy is secure. Somebody will have to go a LONG WAY to suck this bad.

Carter at least had that whole Sadat/Begin thing to point at...

Technically, the events happened over two terms, but point taken.  ;D

Why do the Bushes hate the 'Merkan automotive industry (http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080918/BUSINESS04/809180376)?


The knack for driving the economy into the *feces*ter runs in the family.

While that may be true, its intellectually dishonest to blame 9/11 on Bush.  You honestly think Al Qaeda would have said '*fudge* it, we'll just go home' if Gore was elected?

What's intellectually dishonest is to continue to try to convince yourself and others that the date was 9-11-00

Plain and simple: Happened on his watch, when his term was 20 pct completed.

My thoughts exactly.

Interestingly, the topic on the front page of the Huffington Post (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/) is the "Bush Legacy".

Do you two honestly think that 50 or 100 years from now the history books will say 'Bu-Bu-Bu CLINTON'?

They won't.

Because there is no reason to think the Gore administration would have ignored Richard Clark, I don't think it is at all intellectually dishonest to suggest things may have been very different in that regard.

And since much of the Bush Doctrine flows from what happened on 9/11/01......

Who the hell mentioned anything about Clinton other than you?  ::)

The history books will certainly say 'Terrorists'

They will.

I think that's an unreasonably biased assessment.  We would have changed airport security to such lengths that it would have prevented the act?  And who would have called for that?

As for what happened afterwords, that's not part of my argument and is fair game.

If you magically remove 9/11 from Bush's resume, he still just might be the suckiest suck who ever sucked in the Oval Office (Lewinsky included).

Correct.  Which is why I'm wondering why an incident beyond his control is being used to argue the point.

9-11 won't be considered part of Bush 43's legacy?

I don't think you believe that.

The eerak fiasco (ignoring the civilian deaths of those worthless eerakis) has killed 1000 more americans than 9/11  now,  hasn't it?  i think that has to warrant including 9/11 in his legacy, for perspective if nothing else.

Because it's the event that shaped nearly every *fudge*ed up decision he's ever made in his administration--all decisions that were within his control. There's no separating 9/11 from his legacy, especially since there's still a huge *goshdarn* hole in the ground in lower Manhattan 7 years later. Although it's not necessarily Bush's fault that there's still a hole at ground zero, it serves as a symbol of what this President has accomplished since that tragic event.

Is Pearl Harbor part of FDR's legacy or just the speech?

Not necessarily siding with hobbit but using it as an example. And just to further it FDR didn't end the war either.

Good point.

The difference is that by FDR's death in April 1945, Germany was all but defeated and I believe we had pushed Japan back all the way to Okinawa, making their defeat pretty much inevitable.

OTOH, last time I checked OBL was still living somewhere in Pakistan.

Add in that FDR did not CAUSE the Great Depression t, and the comparison becomes all the more striking.

History books tend not to paint people's legacies in poor light. Unless it's on purpose. When my grandchildren are in school learning history what is happening now will not look so bad to them.

I am sure people during the depression were blaming the president and government too.

Here are my $.02 then I am out.

I don't blame Bush for 9/11. I don't blame Bush for the economy. I don't blame Bush for the war. Why? He is too much of an idiot to cause it or see the mistakes and stop it. There are too many other greedy people that are looking out for themselves in DC and not taking the American public into consideration in their decisions. They don't care that what they do today will hurt tomorrow. All they care about is will it help them retire to a nice home somewhere and allow them to play golf and fish.

I also blame us, myself included. Why? We have the lowest turnout on election day. If we don't vote we get whatever we get. And the people that speak out and complain but do nothing about it? Run for city council, school council, etc... Speak your mind where it counts. There are people like that and they do make a difference.

So does Bush suck? We put him there. Twice. (yes I know he didn't win the pop vote the first time but he got elected none the less) You can also say you didn't vote for him. Good for you. Your guy might have been better, or not. We won't know. But there are still all the other guys in Congress. The President is one person. The captain of the ship is one person too. But if the crew is a bunch of greedy idiots that will do what they want then who is really to blame? And oh by the way, we elected the crew too.

Whatever the case, whatever you want to say about the government is fine. Not saying you are wrong, not saying you don't have a valid point. You have your right to say what you feel. There are people in Washington that are corrupt. There is no doubt of that. And it is hurting the country.

The real question is what can we do to fix it?

TB wins the toss

Wrong thread

it's going down in bush's legacy
 [sm_devil]

Vote for change

LMAO!  +1