GolfHos

Strange, Green make Golf Hall of Fame
http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/ap/golf/4726590.html

One of my favorite golf subjects. 

Two majors with high teens in victories gets you in - barely.  Strange didn't exactly run away with it and Green needed help. 

What about one major with 15 tour wins (Couples and Pavin)?

What about two majors with only 5 tour wins (Daly)?

Olazabal with two majors, six US wins, 22 Euro wins.   Hmmmmmmm.

Davis Love with one major and 19 wins.  Hmmmmmmm.

I say no to single major winners.  How can they be the best of the best?  Dual major winners are a tough call.  No to Daly.  I'd probably say no to Olazabal too but if Strange can get in then he deserves it too.  Especially with his Ryder Cup records. 

HOFs should be for those who are clearly among the greatest of their generation.

No takers on this?  I can go for hours on this subject.

I think it would be nice if everyone could get in. Then no one's feelings would get hurt.

Go kiss a Shetty.  >:(

lol ;)

lmao
I think the NHL hof is like that,except they hate Paul Henderson becuase of his religious beliefs. ;)

How about electing guys who are still playing? ;D

Yay Zoot.  Engage.

Golf is a life-long sport.  Pros can earn a fantastic living playing right up into their sixties.  I think the Golf HOF almost has the right idea.  Eligible at 40 but I think it should be 50.  That has a nice synergy what with the Senior Tour eligibility at the same number. 

The ladies on the other hand only have to be, I think, 21 or so.   [sm_disgust]

That's why I've always liked the Women's Golf Hall of Fame criteria for entrance, I know they've tweaked it a bit, but it still may be the hardest HOF to get into, and it (they) should be.

They changed it:
Entrance to the LPGA Tour Hall of Fame is limited to LPGA Tour members who meet the following criteria:
1. Must be/have been an "active" LPGA Tour member for 10 years:
2. Must have won/been awarded at least one of the following - an LPGA major championship, the Vare Trophy or Rolex Player of the Year honors; and
3. Must have accumulated a total of 27 points, which are awarded as follows - one point for each LPGA official tournament win, two points for each LPGA major tournament win and one point for each Vare Trophy or Rolex Player of the Year honor earned.

Annika just made it in 2003 and Karrie Webb was just this year I think.

And the more I think about it having 1 major and 19 wins is good enough for me (see also Tom Kite), Freddy and Corey on the other hand, boy I don't know I guess no for me, is Lanny in with 21 wins and 1 major? So where is the line? And shouldn't the European wins count? I would vote Jose-Maria in without considering his Ryder Cup performances. And if you're not counting Euro wins then Seve may not make it in because he has only 9 official PGA tour wins, sure 5 of them were majors but again where is the line?

The Hall of Fame should represent a standard of excellence, not popularity.  That's why most sports' HOFs have controversies accompanying a lot of the members selections. 

We could go through any Hall of Fame and come up with arguments why some of the inductees don't belong there, and why some players who aren't in should be.

I agree there are flaws, but I shrug my shoulders and say "what the hell". [sm_dontknow]

In any event, I always liked Hubie Green as a player.  If nothing else, his short game was HOF calibre. 8)

Absolutely Dunk.  That's why I love these discussions.  Everybody's right, nobody's wrong.  Purely subjective and should remain that way. 

HOFs might be the absolutely perfect fodder for a few hours over pints.  'Specially if you don't give a *feces* about Barry Bonds one way or the other.   [sm_devil]

My opinion, in one sentence, is that admittance standards for the WGHOF are too lax.  But I respect your right to buy me a beer and disagree.   ;)

[sm_drink]

Seamie,

It's the World Golf HOF so absolutely the Europeans are involved.  They have a points based criteria like the ladies though.  I guess that's fine for minimums but I generally don't like the idea.

Seve's already in. (http://www.wgv.com/hof/member.php?member=1020)

As we consider majors, wins and so forth we always run into one guy who changes the discussion - Monty. 

This round's on me. [sm_drink]

For what it's worth, I don't like Bonds and I'd just as soon not see him in the HOF.   If I was a sports writer I wouldn't vote for him on the basis of his obvious steroid use.  However I expect it'll be damned near impossible to not vote for him by the time his career is over.


As far as Colin Montgomerie is concerned,  he's a lock for the HOF.  He has more than double the required points to enter the Hall.  Majors notwithstanding, he was the dominant player in Europe for over a decade.  His stats can't be ignored: 34 wins, 8 Order of Merits (including 7 in a row), 5 POTY.  Pretty impressive.

I have to get in and check the Halls requirements for entry, I had fun yesterday with the link Uisce sent just reading the plaques, Old Tom, Young Tom, Alan Robertson et al.

I tried to play point counter point with Uisce.

But he refuses to just say "Seamie you ignorant *trollop*".

My .02 cents...Monty's in w/o winning a major, point system or not.

Seamie you ignorant *trollop*. ;)

And yes, I agree.  Monty's in no matter what.

 :D

Well, like I said, it's all about opinions.  I enjoy hearing where people stand and, you never know, perhaps mine will be changed by your points.

But just cuz I won't argue with you doesn't mean I think you're Nancy Drew.   ;)

No to Monty though.  I'm solid on that.  It's all about the majors baby.  The great ones win majors.  That's where golf is different.  Dan Marino belongs in the HOF without a Super Bowl victory.  That's clear.  You can't do it alone in football and the other team sports.  In golf, you HAVE to do it alone and Monty couldn't quite do it.  Came close a few times and is clearly a fantastic player but best of his generation?  No, I don't think so.

Actually I believe Monty WAS the best player of his generation in Europe.  I don't think anyone comes close to his achievements.


For the record, in order to enter the WGHOF, a player needs 10 PGA Tour wins or two wins in the majors or Players Championship.

There are a lot of players that meet that criteria, but aren't anywhere near being in the "best of a generation" category. 

By the way, players outside the USA/PGA Tour need to accumulate 50 points.
Cumulative 50 points earned as follows:

6 points – Major victories
4 points – Players Championship win
3 points – Other PGA Tour win, European Tour win
2 points – Japan Golf Tour, Sunshine Tour, PGA Tour of Australasia, Champions Tour win
1 point – Other national championship win; Ryder Cup, Presidents Cup participation

Emphasis added...   ;)

Best in Europe doesn't necessarily mean best in the world (although it can and has).  Regardless I wouldn't even agree with that. 

Nick Faldo's six years older than Monty and their careers, from first win to last win, overlapped by roughly that.  He has six majors to Monty's zero.  27 Euro Tour wins to Monty's 30.  Nine US Tour wins to Monty's zero.  Seven "other" wins to Monty's eight. 

Monty couldn't get it done in the majors and he couldn't get it done on the US Tour.  Granted, the Euro Tour is not full of stiffs but I think anyone would agree the US Tour is deeper/stronger/whatever and to some degree it's that way because many of Europe's top players have been members over here. 

Monty's easily the top "tier two" guy of the past two decades.  But, IMO, he's not the best of the best.  That's my "criteria" for the HOF and, in golf, that means majors.

Think about it.  They add, let's say on average, two male golfers every year.   That's twenty a decade or forty over the course of a career.  Now granted they're playing catch-up from eons ago but discounting for that they're saying that there are a dozen or two "greatest of a generation" golfers out there all the time (I know, that's my standard not theirs).  I just don't see it the same way.

:)

In no way is this post meant to be a knock on the European Tour.

The thing I don't like about Uisce's hall of fame is that there is no room for people like Harry Cooper and Ch-eye Ch-eye Rodrigweez.

Or Tommy Bolt or Chick Evans or Lawson Little or Gene Littler.

And what about someone like Charlie Sifford or Lee Elder or Ted Rhodes who were really never given a chance to be the best player of a generation?

I propose a special wing for Uber Major Accomplishments, we'll call it the Uisce Wing.    ;) :)

Sure, why not.  Already there.   :)


But if you're going to make it as a player it should be because of what you did on the course.  Some of the gentlemen you mentioned battled racism and didn't have the opportunities afforded others.  There's a place for them among the greatest contributors but not the greatest players.

Sure, there's cross-over especially when you go back to guys who essentially created professional golf or the Senior Tour out of nothing.  They might deserve a spot - but not as players only and that's what we're really dealing with when talking about the names that have popped up on this thread.


Does this describe Curtis Strange?   [sm_dontknow]

For that matter does it describe Seve? Or Johnny Miller?
You lost me on this one, if you're going allow the black golfers I mentioned in the hall of fame as contributors (Sifford is already in), then Strange and Green could fall under the same category. With all due respect your hall is too restrictive.
I've been thinking about this quote, indulge me for a wee bit and list as many difficult individual sports as you can. Winning the Tour de France...Difficult, Winning the World Series of Darts...Not terribly difficult. I bow to Websters definition:dif·fi·cult –adjective-
1. not easily or readily done; requiring much labor, skill, or planning to be performed successfully; hard.

Seve, absolutely.  Johnny, I think probably but I'd entertain arguments to the contrary.. 


Sifford and Elder broke down barriers.  They excelled under difficult circumstances.  Are they easily HOF material?  I don't know the answer to that.  Before my time and I haven't read much about them.  But I'll give them the benefit of the doubt.  I remember most/all of Strange's career.  Back-to-back Opens is impressive but other than that nothing knocks my socks off.


I'm not following you on this but I'll throw out swimming, track and field, skiing of all disciplines...  The list is long I think.  Does that support a point you're going to slam me with?   ;)

I just want to be clear counselor that we are talking about the same Severiano Ballesteros that allegedly rattles coins and coughs when members of the US Ryder cup team were putting?

I hope I wouldn't even if I could.

Think of it more like, "Inherit the Wind" with you as William Jennings Bryan and me as Clarence Darrow, I'm just trying to mount a logical rebuttal to your "1 Golf Major and 20 Professional non major golf wins does not a hall of famer make".
Shall we stop?

Sure, why not.   :)

Again, this subject is COMPLETELY subjective and I can't see how it might be framed otherwise.  No matter how much I disagree with other opinions obviously they are all valid opinions.   Just as is mine and it is, I should hope, recognized as such.

neither of them deserve it.

;) :)