|
Title: Hate it when I'm right Post by: hobbit on November 28, 2008, 07:47:00 PM Several years ago when concealed carry came up for a vote in MO, a few co-workers were talking about it in a positive light. I disagreed. I stated to them that ANY altercation would then have the potential to become a deadly one - simply for the threat of a gun. They said it would reduce such things - I told them they were being foolish and were incorrectly leaving the heightened emotional status of people in a dispute out of their evaluation.
Anywho - concealed carry or not, this was not a dispute the would not have led to anymore than a broken nose, black eye, some bruised pride. BUT - the boyfriends/husbands had guns. They went running through a store shooting at each other. Yep - them guns - they sure do make us safe ::) A simple freaking fight, let fly the bullets - sigh. Toys R Us Shoot Out (http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/T/TOY_STORE_SHOOTING?SITE=MOSTP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT) Title: Re: Hate it when I'm right Post by: MFAWG on November 28, 2008, 11:28:30 PM Betcha a buck they were from Indio or Coachella, and neither one of them had anything like a permit much less a concealed carry permit.
'When Guns Are Outlawed, Only' blah, blah, blah. Title: Re: Hate it when I'm right Post by: birdymaker on November 29, 2008, 05:21:33 AM dude, living in an urban area such as your self, (i have spent an incredible amount of time in the lou, Lewis and Clark's restaurant OMFG ;)) you would be shocked at how many times a day you are within 50 yards of someone carrying a handgun without a permit.
rarely, almost never does gun violence involve a registered, permitted carrier. Title: Re: Hate it when I'm right Post by: gleek on November 29, 2008, 08:20:00 AM I agree with hobbit here. I hate it when he's right. :D
The way I see it, people get hot-headed and do really *goshdarn* stupid things all the time. If you increase the number of people walking around carrying concealed weapons, you're only going to increase the possibility that somebody is going to lose it while carrying a deadly weapon. Whether these hypothetical permitted people are generally law-abiding citizens is irrelevant. Anger turns otherwise law-abiding citizens into criminals. We see this happen every day. If you mix the stupidity of the general population and our road rage culture with guns, the bullets are going to fly. You can bank on it. Title: Re: Hate it when I'm right Post by: Spanky on November 29, 2008, 08:41:29 AM Welcome to Texas
Title: Re: Hate it when I'm right Post by: Blader on November 29, 2008, 08:55:07 AM the way I see it, gun death deniers are flying in the same hot air balloon along with evolution deniers, climate change deniers, tobacco-induced cancer deniers, &C and so forthe....you know, all the *fudge*ers who insist that their intuitive grasp of an issue is the correct version, despite a *goshdarn* mountain of evidence to the contrary (http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/431908).
Title: Re: Hate it when I'm right Post by: Fuzzy on November 29, 2008, 09:01:08 AM I lean against conceal and carry laws for the reasons given by hobbit but I will offer up my experience here. The sky is falling anti-conceal and carry folks here in Minnesota argued that there would so many shoot-outs it would be like the wild west.
It's been a few years now and I think there has been one incident with a person who had a permit. And the number of permits issued have been waay below the estimates of the ant-permit side who would have had us believe that everyone would be packin'. It's sad that people think they need to carry guns to protect themselves. Put most of them in a situation where they pull their guns and they'd *feces* their pants before they wound up dead. Hopefully before they killed any innocent bystanders. Title: Re: Hate it when I'm right Post by: Fuzzy on November 29, 2008, 09:04:58 AM If you mix the stupidity of the general population and our road rage culture with guns, the bullets are going to fly. You can bank on it. No offense but we heard this in MN. It's the completely emotional argument that simply hasn't played out. Again, before my *feces* gets jumped I'm against letting every Tom, *8==>* and Harry carry a gun. Title: Re: Hate it when I'm right Post by: stroh on November 29, 2008, 09:08:37 AM I don't understand the effort in time, money, etc. to have the ability to carry something that you are not allowed to bring into about 95% of places.
So you have a permit to carry a gun on the sidewalk? What's the point? Title: Re: Hate it when I'm right Post by: hobbit on November 29, 2008, 09:09:50 AM If you mix the stupidity of the general population and our road rage culture with guns, the bullets are going to fly. You can bank on it. No offense but we heard this in MN. It's the completely emotional argument that simply hasn't played out. Again, before my *feces* gets jumped I'm against letting every Tom, *8==>* and Harry carry a gun. I'll jump your *feces* simply for the fact that I posted exhibit A to your 'hasn't played out' in the OP ;) Title: Re: Hate it when I'm right Post by: hobbit on November 29, 2008, 09:14:38 AM And to all that thought I was arguing permits vs criminal carry - I was not. It was simply a discussion with co-workers at that time when I shared my thoughts on carrying guns - legal or not. Despite not wanting to outright ban guns, I do not think we should be carrying them around in public.
Title: Re: Hate it when I'm right Post by: Fuzzy on November 29, 2008, 09:16:51 AM If you mix the stupidity of the general population and our road rage culture with guns, the bullets are going to fly. You can bank on it. No offense but we heard this in MN. It's the completely emotional argument that simply hasn't played out. Again, before my *feces* gets jumped I'm against letting every Tom, *8==>* and Harry carry a gun. I'll jump your shot simply for the fact that I posted exhibit A to your 'hasn't played out' in the OP ;) I was referring to the argument that there will be weekly shootouts. Seriously, all we heard here was how many deaths would be caused by permit holders in similar statements to gleeks. That hasn't played out here. Of course one incident is one too many. It's why I'm against the law. However I didn't read in the article that these guys had the legal right to carry. :) Title: Re: Hate it when I'm right Post by: Fuzzy on November 29, 2008, 09:17:38 AM And to all that thought I was arguing permits vs criminal carry - I was not. It was simply a discussion with co-workers at that time when I shared my thoughts on carrying guns - legal or not. Despite not wanting to outright ban guns, I do not think we should be carrying them around in public. I resemble this remark. [sm_beertoast] Title: Re: Hate it when I'm right Post by: Aske on November 29, 2008, 09:20:10 AM (http://bp3.blogger.com/_vRj2ZF8vuSw/R1AgxpjLT9I/AAAAAAAAAAU/tUvQto-wKMw/s320/happygilmorebend4.jpg)
Couldn't find the pic of him in his other shirt. [sm_devil] Title: Re: Hate it when I'm right Post by: spacey on November 29, 2008, 09:23:25 AM (http://nostarclothing.com/no_star/catalog/images/main/mm_guns.gif)
Title: Re: Hate it when I'm right Post by: MFAWG on November 29, 2008, 09:24:58 AM the way I see it, gun death deniers are flying in the same hot air balloon along with evolution deniers, climate change deniers, tobacco-induced cancer deniers, &C and so forthe....you know, all the *fudge*ers who insist that their intuitive grasp of an issue is the correct version, despite a *goshdarn* mountain of evidence to the contrary (http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/431908). Could we get a summary? I can't think of a reason why I'd want to join Medscape.com. Are there statistics in there that show gun deaths go up in areas with extremely lax concealed carry laws? Do those deaths go up more or less than in areas with extremely tight restrictions? FWIW, I have a permit, but I rarely carry anymore. Title: Re: Hate it when I'm right Post by: Aske on November 29, 2008, 09:30:34 AM (http://www.founditemclothing.com/t-shirts/gfx/guns-shirt.jpg)
Title: Re: Hate it when I'm right Post by: Blader on November 29, 2008, 04:11:23 PM the way I see it, gun death deniers are flying in the same hot air balloon along with evolution deniers, climate change deniers, tobacco-induced cancer deniers, &C and so forthe....you know, all the *fudge*ers who insist that their intuitive grasp of an issue is the correct version, despite a *goshdarn* mountain of evidence to the contrary (http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/431908). Could we get a summary? I can't think of a reason why I'd want to join Medscape.com. Are there statistics in there that show gun deaths go up in areas with extremely lax concealed carry laws? Do those deaths go up more or less than in areas with extremely tight restrictions? FWIW, I have a permit, but I rarely carry anymore. oops, my bad here is the meat and potatoes of the article, which is itself a brief summary. BTW, without looking it up, my sense is all of the hullabaloo lately about loosening concealed-carry restrictions reflects a centrally orchestrated drama...I'm guessing the NRA could be found riding herd somewhere in the cattle drive. Quote Americans own approximately 200 million guns.[3] Over one-third of US households have one or more firearms, and 32% of families with children have handguns at home.[3] Among gun owners with children in the home, 30% reported that they sometimes or always maintain a loaded gun.[4] More than half of all gun owners do not lock up their firearms. Handguns, which constitute about one-third of all firearms in the US, have been linked to 70%-90% of fatal firearm injuries.[5] One reason may be that handguns are about five times more likely to be kept loaded compared to other firearms.[3] Having a loaded gun, an unlocked gun, or multiple guns in the home significantly increases the risk of death from firearms among people living in the household.[6-9] The Hazards of Owning a Gun A common reason for gun ownership is personal and family protection. However, firearms are rarely used for this purpose.[10] A five-year study from the National Crime Victimization Survey found that people used guns in self-defense in fewer than 1% of all violent crimes.[11] Guns kept in the home for protection are much more likely to result in the death of a friend, family member, or neighbor. Only 15% of homicides occur during felonies such as robbery, burglary, or drug-trafficking, whereas more than half are the result of an argument between two people who know each other.[12] In addition, having a gun in the home increases the risk of homicide three fold and suicide five fold.[6-8, 13-15] Handguns specifically pose a higher risk of suicide and homicide than long guns.[6,7,9] Title: Re: Hate it when I'm right Post by: MFAWG on November 29, 2008, 04:23:50 PM Okay, guns are dangerous. I don't think anybody disputes that. It's also easier to shoot yourself accidentally or on purpose with a pistol than a long gun. Duh!
I'm perfectly willing to acknowledge that guns are dangerous and should probably only be owned by responsible, law abiding adults, and concealed carry laws should be even more restrictive. Equating that position to denying the holocaust sounds like a Godwins Law corollary to my ears... Title: Re: Hate it when I'm right Post by: Blader on November 29, 2008, 05:04:38 PM by god you're right, I forgot to mention holocaust deniers....
where is the evidence that only the guns owned by responsible, law abiding adults are the safe ones? why do they get a free pass? Title: Re: Hate it when I'm right Post by: MFAWG on November 29, 2008, 05:16:02 PM by god you're right, I forgot to mention holocaust deniers.... LOL, Holocaust Denier was the ONLY one you missed. Quote where is the evidence that only the guns owned by responsible, law abiding adults are the safe ones? why do they get a free pass? Your engaging in the argument tactics of the wingnuts by saying I said something that I clearly did not say. It doesn't suit you. They get a 'Free Pass' because the 2d amendment says they do. Title: Re: Hate it when I'm right Post by: Blader on November 29, 2008, 05:39:48 PM I've read the constitution and the high and durable ideals therein and have come to the conclusion that the 2nd amendment doesn't belong there....sort of the same way the grown children of my little brother's 3rd wife don't belong at our thanksgiving family dinner.
I mean, they're welcome but are pretty much out of place. Title: Re: Hate it when I'm right Post by: MFAWG on November 29, 2008, 05:41:03 PM Quote I've read the constitution and the high and durable ideals therein and have come to the conclusion that the 2nd amendment doesn't belong there. Fair statement. Now all you have to do is change it. It can be done, you know. We've done it several times. |