GolfHos

 :watchingyou:

 [sm_stir] [sm_happy1]

It's the little cocker spaniels that are the vicious ones.

You boy's are "faeces-stirrer's"!!!!!!!!! [sm_devil] [sm_devil] [sm_devil]

 :o

*fudge* all y'all bitches.  :finger:

 [sm_dontknow] :angel:

Just sayin' here what I'd get in trouble for saying over there.  ;)

I should know better than to get involved, it's not a discussion people are interested in or willing to approach rationally. My opinion is based on years of experience with the breed, not just personally, and literally 100s of hours of reading and research. Theirs is based on a handful of stories they "seen on the news" and a few inaccurate and misleading "statistics." Oddly enough most, if not all, would be resistant to the idea of banning guns even though hundreds of times more people are injured or killed every year by firearms owned by irresponsible or outright criminal owners.

Anyway, I haven't really had much interaction with ClevelandTA7, but it seems the last time I did, he was feeling slighted by "the man" because he doesn't get to use the "N" Word. I'm forming a relatively comprehensive mental image of him involving a mullet, a track suit, and a Z-28.

i should know better than to comment too... you {already} know my {biased} stance.  i think that 90% of the pit bulls (and yes, i mean pit bulls, which I can identify, unlike most people) are unfortunately owned by idiots, thugs, and otherwise irresponsible/incapable owners.  this puts me in a position where I say we ideally need to restrict/rewrite ownership laws...  {of course ... people won't settle for that}  ...  {yes, this inconveniences the good owners in the minority)

regarding your point on guns, for example,  we generally require licenses or training and background checks etc...

anyways,  my concern is really at pits per se,  it's more at any* breed of dog that has the capacity to physically overpower its own master when in a 'rage' ... leash laws become meaningless when that's the case.    We routinely see tons of young women here jogging the borders to the 'worse' sides of town with 2-3 pits, rotts, dobermans, etc .   You tell me that those 120# women can really control any of those dogs if they really want to get loose.





and regarding mullets,  read my sig.

 8)

What a *fudge*in' *8==>*.

me ?
 :-\

LOL.  Of course not.  I have always had my trepidations about Ta7, but that thread, and just the "baiting" in his last post......*fudge*in' stain.

gotcha

didn't read any figs  lately

I'd say 90% is high. I agree that ownership rules should be rewritten.

Unfortunately any argument that can be made about outlawing guns can be made about banning or changing the laws about owning dogs. "When they outlaw pit bulls..." and so forth.

When I was a child, I remember hearing horrible stories about Doberman Pinschers. "Their brains outgrow their skull and they become unstable and will 'turn' on their owners" was a big one. My cousin had a dobie and I was terrified of it because of the stories I heard. Too bad, apparently she was a sweet dog. Anyway, the point being, at the time dobies were current the dog of choice for the criminal and criminally stupid alike. I can't tell you the last time I heard a dobie horror story.

Luckily for pit bulls, I think their popularity is starting to shift. Thugs seem to be shifting their attention to more "bad ass" breeds like Rottweilers, Presa Canarios, certain breeds of Mastiffs, etc. Unfortunate for those breeds to be certain.

Pit Bulls are not a breed for everyone. They require a strong owner, consistent rules, and lots of positive attention and reinforcement. The same could be said for any large, strong, intelligent breed. Any time the dog is smarter than its owner, you're going to have a problem. Unfortunately the dog will always be blamed. I say next time a pit bull attacks, don't just euthanize the dog.

whew, rant over.

How can any dog that rolls over on his back showing his pee pee, and hanging his tounge out while smiling be bad?

my relatives had a doberman in the 80's and 90's  they lived in a small house (probably 1800 sf or so, mostly filled), smaller yard(probably 30x40), and kept it in basically a modified enclosed porch ... about 10'x20' whenever people came over.  i remember distinctly over time (years going by) how sad and angry that poor dog become  .... times would go by that it would jump at the windows trying to get at people, bark non-stop, etc

 :-\

zacktly

Much like the boys in the jailhouse, the dog at this point is bowing to the alpha male. It's basically a submissive move. Any dog can and will attack, I've seen little rat terriers that are mean sumbitches.

It's the old nature versus nurture argument. Spaceage and I have talked about this before, some breeds have been bred to do certain things, it's hard for them to get away from that mapping, watch an aussie shepherd with a group of other dogs at a park, it wants to herd the other dogs, my lab wants to get in the water and pull things. Unfortunately Pit Bulls were bred to fight. does that mean that they are inherently evil, I don't think so, I think I could raise any dog to be loving and gentle, then again I've been doing it for 20+ years.

Who said euthanize the idiot owners, that gets' my vote.

Well, I couldn't resist.  After that *fudge*in' idiot made the comment about it being the same as keepin' "a loaded fire arm" in the house.

I was gonna go with one dog bites, so all muslims are terr'ists.......but figured it wouldn't be prudent.  I just can't get involved.  I really don't have a dog in the fight. ;)

Keep in mind that Pit Bulls were bred to fight dogs, not people, and they are smart enough to know the difference. In fact they were also specifically bred to be friendly toward humans. It was a general safety issue- a handler didn't want to have a dog who might turn on him before, during, or after a fight. In fact, the old breeders used to destroy immediately any dog that showed human aggression or general instability toward people. The argument can be made that some breeders of lesser repute have intentionally bred dogs who display viciousness, and this may be true to some degree, but it is not in their fundamental genetic makeup. Viciousness is a tendency that has to be cultivated, either through intentional training, or through neglect (as in Aske's story about his relatives' dobie).

It is true that you can, for the most part, take the dog out of the fight but not the fight out of the dog. Monte has displayed aggression towards other dogs, though almost in every case it was in direct response to the dog being aggressive towards him. I can't expect a dog with generations and generations of dogfighting in his genes to suddenly be a different breed. We socialized him very young so he is good with other dogs, but he will certainly not say no to a good fight. He doesn't seek them out, but he won't turn them down. I'm realistic about it, which is why we don't allow him to be unattended with other dogs.

What bothers me is attitudes like "the dog killed a cat/dog/rabbit/squirrel/etc today, tomorrow it could be a child." It's irrational, and it's incorrect. Beagles, if given the opportunity, will kill a rabbit in a second, but at the same time be gentle and docile with children. A beagle knows the difference between a rabbit and a baby.

I remember hearing a story a while back about a family's St. Bernard that "suddenly snapped" and mauled their child. When they put the dog down, they discovered that it had a pencil jammed 8" into its ear canal. My question, however, is what the hell are people doing leaving children unattended with dogs, of any breed, in the first place?

Until someone figures out a way to keep idiots from owning dogs, I'm afraid there's really no way to prevent bad/vicious/dangerous dogs. Unfortunately, as I said before, the dog, not the owner, will always be blamed.

Damn. There I went again.

Man I had a flashback, I think Mom and Dad said this about me when I was like 4 or 5.

LOL Seamus.

Well said, spacey.

This thread would win against the Figs thread in a pit fight.

Nature or nurture?

It was a rhetorical question Errol. What have I told you about thinking?

Oh, please.  Some boards have been bred to do certain things, it's hard for them to get away from that mapping.

Our neighbor had a pit bull, it barked 24/7.

My friend has a cousin whose coworker told him about a police officer who told him that he once heard about one board that was friendly and polite and then one day just turned and became mean. You can't trust boards like that.

But, was it the board's fault, or the owner's?

The owner neglected the board.

Hey, I know that board.  I go there quite a bit.

[sm_devil]

I'm guessing this would hold for many dogs put in those conditions.

said dog laying down with it's meal owner. [sm_devil]

When?

It did more than bark 24/7....

Simple Simon says "I've reported your post."

GAy much?

He's a wanker.