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Stack and Tilt

 
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gleek
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Stack and Tilt
« on: June 27, 2009, 11:31:06 AM »

Anybody here tried it? Like a lot of people did, I read about this swing in Golf Digest way back when. I tried a couple swings using this method at the driving range, but it felt a little strange and I probably wasn't doing it correctly anyway. Heck, if it takes two GD issues to fully describe the technique, it's probably not something you can learn on your own, I thought.

Fastforward to Wednesday evening. I decided to go to the range since I'm scheduled to play on Sunday, and I hadn't swung a club in ages. I got myself a super large bucket of 170 balls, and proceeded to pound about a third of the balls with my 8 iron. My goal was to work on clean ballstriking. I love to experiment with my swing at the range, so I tried the full gamut of shots--full swings, half swings, punch shots, more wristcock, stronger grip, weaker grip, more divot, less divot, different ball positions within my stance, &c. to see what works best. Because of the long layoff, I figured it's like starting with a clean slate. As one could expect, the results were varied.

Toward the end of the experimentation with the different 8 iron shots, I wanted to relax a bit. So I started hitting chip shots (still with the 8 iron since I was too lazy to grab a wedge) and noticed how far the ball still seems to travel simply because the impact with the ball is so clean. So I experimented further by taking fuller swings using the same chipping stance, the key aspect of which is weight shifted to the left (forward) foot. What I noticed was that, although I addressed the ball up with my weight shifted to my left foot like on a chip, it was difficult NOT to shift some of the weight back to the right when taking a full swing. However, I was still making really clean contact with the ball--even when I felt like I was overswinging. I went through my other clubs, occasionally going back to a regular address position to confirm my findings, and found that this technique works well with longer irons and even fairway woods. One caveat was that this new technique didn't seem to work as well with a driver. I think it mainly has to do with the fact that you want to make contact with ball almost on the upswing with a driver unlike with other clubs. I'll have to continue experimenting to figure out the correct address position for this club.

The key seems to be that when addressing the ball with my weight shifted to my left side, it's closer where my weight wil be when actually making contact with the ball. This tends to give me a frame of reference for the moment of impact and virtually eliminates the need to mentally time the different aspects of the swing. IOW, I can just "grip it and rip it" and still make clean contact with the ball.

After coming home from the range, it occurred to me that this new technique that I "discovered" is very similar, in principle, to the stack and tilt. However, what I can remember from the GD articles was that there was a lot of detail in the backswing that was completely lost on me. So what I came up with might be something like "Stack and Tilt for Dummies". Grin

Knowing how these golf "epiphanies" usually go, I went back the range last night to confirm that this might really be something. Just to prove to myself that it wasn't something else, I went through the whole range of different swing tweaks using the "standard" address position. Much like the early part of my Wednesday night range session, there was no one physical change to my swing or one particular "swing thought" that was obviously more successful than another. So I went back to the new technique, and immediately saw an improvement in ballstriking. However, I still couldn't figure out that *goshdarn* driver. I might have to tee off with my 5 wood on Sunday.  Grin
« Last Edit: June 27, 2009, 11:32:39 AM by gleek » Logged Return to Top

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Re: Stack and Tilt
« Reply #1 on: June 28, 2009, 09:10:59 AM »

I *think* all of my good rounds are stack-and-tiltish.  All of my bad rounds are something else.  I don't know if I'm doing it right or really even what it is beyond the weight on left side bit.  If what I'm thinking I'm doing is really stack and tilt then hell yeah I love it.

Golf swing "systems" seem to be the biggest crock of *feces* ever to my eyes.  We're all different and different things work for each of us.  What's fantastic for me may suck for you.  One thing for certain it has to come natural.  I stopped reading golf mags because my eyes glaze over on those 1-24 photo sequence deals.  If I have to concentrate on that many details I'm a goner.
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stroh
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Re: Stack and Tilt
« Reply #2 on: June 28, 2009, 07:45:07 PM »

Hmmmm.

A.  I guess I never realized you ever actually played golf.

B.  If you read FGI at all, you know you need to always hit down on the driver.   Devil

C.  I loved your post, but you gave no specifics on what you did.  I don't have time (or interest) to read GD articles X2, let alone pages and pages of dribble on that other site. 

D.  Excellent on the reproduction!  Always a good feeling when it works twice.

E.  Good luck on your round Sunday!

F.  You always hit down with your driver.  Take a divot even.



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Re: Stack and Tilt
« Reply #3 on: June 29, 2009, 04:15:45 PM »

I'm still using the S&T general ideas of the pivot to help me achieve a proper impact position.  I've never seen the DVD's and probably won't.  I just try to center my pivot with my weight more on my left side.  I basically want to keep my left knee over my left toes on my backswing which keeps my weight a little forward.  Then pivot through to my finish.  This has really allowed me to maintain lag and hit very crisp irons.  I'm still struggling with partial wedges but Stan Utely's art of the short game is helping.  He teaches the short game with basic S&T fundamentals.  On my driver I try to make sure and keep my head behind the ball.  So my weight is more 50/50 to slightly back but I turn and stay behind the ball.  All in all my ballstriking is much improved with greater consistency, and when I get a feel for the touch shots I'll be in good shape. 
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gleek
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Re: Stack and Tilt
« Reply #4 on: June 29, 2009, 07:38:31 PM »

I really screwed the pooch with my first on-course try-out of the S&T. On Saturday night, I decided to chop an inch off all my irons since I found that I hit the ball better by choking down a bit. Anonymous On Sunday morning, I figured I'd go to the range before my round to get adjusted to the new length. From the first range ball, it was "Thin City". I was having a hard time staying down through the swing, and when I consciously made an effort to do so, I was hitting duck hooks. After about 15 balls, I went back to the standard set-up and I was able to at least reduce the severity of the hooks some, but I was still having a hard time hitting down and taking a divot. The entire round was a struggle not to thin the ball, and playing in 107 degree temperatures made it even tougher to concentrate.

In hindsight, I probably should have played the ball slightly closer to my right foot because of the short club length. Man, do I now feel stupid for not thinking of that yesterday.  Angry Hell, in hindsight, I probably shouldn't have shortened my clubs by a full inch either.

Anyway, I still want to give the S&T a fair shake, so it's back to the range to get used to these shorter clubs (or maybe cut down another set by just a half-inch this time  Grin).

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gleek
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Re: Stack and Tilt
« Reply #5 on: June 29, 2009, 07:51:42 PM »

On my driver I try to make sure and keep my head behind the ball.  So my weight is more 50/50 to slightly back but I turn and stay behind the ball.  All in all my ballstriking is much improved with greater consistency, and when I get a feel for the touch shots I'll be in good shape. 

This is how I set up with a driver too. stroh, I think it's because of this type of set-up that I use the "swing thought" of hitting the ball on the upswing (even though it may not be the case in actuality). Otherwise, I think I'd be pulling the shot. Of course, now that my driver is shorter, I'll probably have to play the ball farther back in my stance and hit down on the ball.  Grin
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gleek
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Re: Stack and Tilt
« Reply #6 on: June 29, 2009, 08:07:44 PM »

C.  I loved your post, but you gave no specifics on what you did.  I don't have time (or interest) to read GD articles X2, let alone pages and pages of dribble on that other site. 

The only specifics that I can think of (when I was at the range the first two times, that is) is that I set up with my weight distribution about 75% toward my left foot. I didn't worrry too much about anything else, but if I were to think back, I would say that I set up with my hands ahead of the clubhead.  At the top of my backswing would be closer to 50-50, but still shaded toward my left foot. At impact, I simply tried to get back to same position as I set up--weight on the left foot and hands ahead of the clubhead.
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stroh
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Re: Stack and Tilt
« Reply #7 on: June 30, 2009, 06:25:03 AM »


 Of course, now that my driver is shorter, I'll probably have to play the ball farther back in my stance and hit down on the ball.  Grin


 Grin  It was just a little smart ass quip.  The biggest flame war I have ever witnessed came from the other joint, and all started over "Hitting down with the driver."   Laughing

C.  I loved your post, but you gave no specifics on what you did.  I don't have time (or interest) to read GD articles X2, let alone pages and pages of dribble on that other site. 

The only specifics that I can think of (when I was at the range the first two times, that is) is that I set up with my weight distribution about 75% toward my left foot. I didn't worrry too much about anything else, but if I were to think back, I would say that I set up with my hands ahead of the clubhead.  At the top of my backswing would be closer to 50-50, but still shaded toward my left foot. At impact, I simply tried to get back to same position as I set up--weight on the left foot and hands ahead of the clubhead.

Got it.  The reason I asked, is because while aware of this method, I never actually bothered to read about it, and honestly avoided the threads.  So I have no clue what the methodology even is.  Anonymous  I don't know what the S&T is, or how to do it.

I like the shortened clubs.  And the idea of another set.  Grin
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Re: Stack and Tilt
« Reply #8 on: June 30, 2009, 08:09:27 AM »

On Saturday night, I decided to chop an inch off all my irons since I found that I hit the ball better by choking down a bit.    Drinking Shoot Head
 

 Hell, in hindsight, I probably shouldn't have shortened my clubs by a full inch at all either. Thumbs Up



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Re: Stack and Tilt
« Reply #9 on: July 06, 2009, 02:14:54 PM »

shorter clubs work wonders for crisp ball striking.  Devil  although, I've been told there's no way I can hit my little cut down hybrids the distances I claim.  Devil Wink


never tried this stack and tilt mumbo jumbo (at least on purpose, consciously).  I can imagine from the description though a nice forward press at address is needed.  I already do that... so.... maybe I should tinker around with it some.
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Re: Stack and Tilt
« Reply #10 on: August 07, 2009, 08:24:37 PM »

I really screwed the pooch with my first on-course try-out of the S&T. On Saturday night, I decided to chop an inch off all my irons since I found that I hit the ball better by choking down a bit. Anonymous On Sunday morning, I figured I'd go to the range before my round to get adjusted to the new length. From the first range ball, it was "Thin City". I was having a hard time staying down through the swing, and when I consciously made an effort to do so, I was hitting duck hooks. After about 15 balls, I went back to the standard set-up and I was able to at least reduce the severity of the hooks some, but I was still having a hard time hitting down and taking a divot. The entire round was a struggle not to thin the ball, and playing in 107 degree temperatures made it even tougher to concentrate.

In hindsight, I probably should have played the ball slightly closer to my right foot because of the short club length. Man, do I now feel stupid for not thinking of that yesterday.  Angry Hell, in hindsight, I probably shouldn't have shortened my clubs by a full inch either.

Anyway, I still want to give the S&T a fair shake, so it's back to the range to get used to these shorter clubs (or maybe cut down another set by just a half-inch this time  Grin).


Sounds like ya inadvertently stumbled on SNT...and then made a mistake...the SNT , to do correctly, makes you slightly flatten out the swing plane....
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stroh
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Re: Stack and Tilt
« Reply #11 on: August 08, 2009, 07:03:30 AM »

I really screwed the pooch with my first on-course try-out of the S&T. On Saturday night, I decided to chop an inch off all my irons since I found that I hit the ball better by choking down a bit. Anonymous On Sunday morning, I figured I'd go to the range before my round to get adjusted to the new length. From the first range ball, it was "Thin City". I was having a hard time staying down through the swing, and when I consciously made an effort to do so, I was hitting duck hooks. After about 15 balls, I went back to the standard set-up and I was able to at least reduce the severity of the hooks some, but I was still having a hard time hitting down and taking a divot. The entire round was a struggle not to thin the ball, and playing in 107 degree temperatures made it even tougher to concentrate.

In hindsight, I probably should have played the ball slightly closer to my right foot because of the short club length. Man, do I now feel stupid for not thinking of that yesterday.  Angry Hell, in hindsight, I probably shouldn't have shortened my clubs by a full inch either.

Anyway, I still want to give the S&T a fair shake, so it's back to the range to get used to these shorter clubs (or maybe cut down another set by just a half-inch this time  Grin).


Sounds like ya inadvertently stumbled on SNT...and then made a mistake...the SNT , to do correctly, makes you slightly flatten out the swing plane....

LOL  Was it a slow night in Iowa?   Grin

Welcome to GolfHos.   Cheers
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Re: Stack and Tilt
« Reply #12 on: September 03, 2009, 07:03:11 AM »

'indacup' has a sophisticated intergoogle bot working for him 24/7, termed the Manzellabot, programmed to alert him about any threads anywhere in the vast interspaces in which the term "hit down on the ball with your driver" has been deployed

those were good times

I haven't studied the stack and tilt, but from what little I've heard about it, what it mostly sounds to do for us regular folk is promote a firm front side and to impair sway faults, because if you keep your front side planted in the turf, it is kinda hard for it to swing back and to fly forward.  Which are good things not to do when hitting a golf ball.
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stroh
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Re: Stack and Tilt
« Reply #13 on: September 04, 2009, 08:22:30 AM »

'indacup' has a sophisticated intergoogle bot working for him 24/7, termed the Manzellabot, programmed to alert him about any threads anywhere in the vast interspaces in which the term "hit down on the ball with your driver" has been deployed

those were good times



LOL  Good times indeed.
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Re: Stack and Tilt
« Reply #14 on: September 04, 2009, 08:34:57 AM »

I haven't studied the stack and tilt, but from what little I've heard about it, what it mostly sounds to do for us regular folk is promote a firm front side and to impair sway faults, because if you keep your front side planted in the turf, it is kinda hard for it to swing back and to fly forward.  Which are good things not to do when hitting a golf ball.
That's a pretty astute observation with which I have to agree.
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For hither not, I am the stallion.
Come fear, come love, I am the stallion.
You know that I am the stallion, mang.
I am, I am the stallion, mang.
You know that I am the stallion, mang.
I live, I walk, I am the stallion, mang.
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