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wtf

 
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Aske
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wtf
« on: January 25, 2010, 12:34:45 PM »

http://thenewspaper.com/news/30/3030.asp
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Russia has invaded a sovereign neighboring state and threatens a democratic government elected by its people. Such an action is unacceptable in the 21st century.
--  Chimpy McFlightsuit, CEO of Bu$hco Industries of 'Merka
gleek
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Re: wtf
« Reply #1 on: January 25, 2010, 12:49:09 PM »

LMAO!

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Disturbing the peace? I got thrown out of a window! What's the *fudge*in' charge for getting pushed out of a moving car, huh? Jaywalking?
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Aske
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Re: wtf
« Reply #2 on: January 25, 2010, 01:18:02 PM »

<<<

"Although the facts of this case are not those of the typical physical control case in which a jury can infer that the defendant was in physical control because he drove the vehicle to where it came to rest, a jury could reasonably find that Fleck, having been found intoxicated, alone, and sleeping behind the wheel of his own vehicle with the keys in the vehicle's console, was in a position to exercise dominion or control over the vehicle and that he could, without too much difficulty, make the vehicle a source of danger,"

>>>

this guy is probably a danger (multiple convictions before and all), but WTF conviction without proof?.

what if I have a working car and pass out drunk in my apartment with keys in my pocket (or even in my apartment).
?  sounds like I have about as much "position to exercise dominion over the vehicle"


hell, can people with RVs not drink in them?

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Russia has invaded a sovereign neighboring state and threatens a democratic government elected by its people. Such an action is unacceptable in the 21st century.
--  Chimpy McFlightsuit, CEO of Bu$hco Industries of 'Merka
MFAWG
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Re: wtf
« Reply #3 on: January 25, 2010, 06:09:41 PM »

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hell, can people with RVs not drink in them?

Varies very, very widely by state.

I thought this was interesting:

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A few weeks after Fleck's vehicle was impounded, a police officer tested the vehicle using the keys found in the car's center console.

"Although the key turned in the ignition, the vehicle would not start," Justice Alan C. Page explained in the unanimous decision.

Means less than nothing. The implication seems to be that the vehicle was inoperable at the time of the offense, but that's hard to say for sure one way or the other.


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The things that will destroy America are prosperity at any price, peace at any price, safety first instead of duty first, the love of soft living and the get rich quick theory of life. -- Teddy Roosevelt
stroh
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Re: wtf
« Reply #4 on: January 25, 2010, 09:48:11 PM »

Missed this thread earlier.

This holds significant relevance to me as I was convicted under this law.

 Hate!


My story was as simple and generic as they come.  Went to the bar.  Had too much to drink.  Walked out to the parking lot, put the keys in my back pocket climbed in the car and went to sleep.  Woke up to a tap on the window and a subsequent arrest for dwi under physical control laws.

Went to fight it, because I couldn't believe such laws were even on the books and was told I had no chance for those that came before and became case law.



1.  Dude goes out on his birthday, gets wasted, buddies throw him in the car (passenger seat no less) toss the keys in the glove box and go back in the bar.  Boom.  Done.  DWI.  Dude didn't even know where he was or how he got there.  Didn't matter.  Physical Control.  Car -> Keys -> Operable -> Drunk Dude =DWI.

2.  Dude with car in the driveway of his own house working on it, playing the stereo.  Apparently too loud for the neighbors who called the police.  He had been drinking all day because he had no intention of leaving his driveway, but of course because he was working on his car and had the keys in the ignition...Boom.  Done.  DWI.  Didn't matter.  Physical Control.  Car -> Keys -> Operable -> Drunk Dude =DWI.

The list goes on and on.  I had no shot.

I told them they sent a very clear message.  If I chose to drive home that night I may very well have ended up where I am right now, or maybe not at all.  I clearly made the wrong choice.  Won't happen again.


At that time, however I was told that an inoperable vehicle was not considered as evidence in physical control.  Interesting how the times and the lobbying change the laws.

« Last Edit: January 25, 2010, 09:50:19 PM by stroh » Logged Return to Top
gleek
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Re: wtf
« Reply #5 on: January 25, 2010, 10:45:29 PM »

What if you leave the keys outside on top of one your tires, and you get inside, lock the doors, and sleep in the backseats? Could they still bust you for that?
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stroh
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Re: wtf
« Reply #6 on: January 25, 2010, 10:58:18 PM »

What if you leave the keys outside on top of one your tires, and you get inside, lock the doors, and sleep in the backseats? Could they still bust you for that?

Yep.  From what I was told.

Proximity of you, keys, and vehicle are that matters, and seems to be up to the interpretation of the arresting officer and the court, but also always seems to be upheld, no matter how ludicrous the circumstances may seem.

Basically anywhere near, on,  in, around, in close proximity to, with the availability to bring them together.
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Aske
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Re: wtf
« Reply #7 on: January 26, 2010, 03:42:26 AM »

when you give the same penalty to those who try to do the right things vs those who choose to do the wrong thing,   while those who do the right thing are potentially *more likely* to even get noticed, it seems you are encouraging people to just do the wrong thing. 

i mean under these laws the following hypotheticals...


guy is at dinner eating out with friends (with some drinks), designated driver for whatever reason still eating left something in car.  drunk guy goes to retrieve something from car.  bam.

guy is out drunk, realize shouldn't drive home, but bar is closed.  it's -10* out, so he sits in his car with the heat on waiting for  taxi. bam.

guy is out drunk, walking home, sees an seemingly abandoned crashed car with engine running, goes to check it out, calls 911, sees engine running, opens door to see if anyone really inside, reaches in and touches keys as cop pulls up. bam.

guy hides present for wife in car for surprise party.  has a few during party. walks out to car, opens trunk.  bam.


stupid.
stupid.
stupid.
stupid.



which all gets back to my point.  basically it seems like in theory, they could get you inside your house for this unless you lock your keys in a safe that's opened by a passed breathalyzer+retinaeyescan+dnaswab -- this "domain of exerciaibility of control" clause or whatnot is so vague and powerful... 


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Russia has invaded a sovereign neighboring state and threatens a democratic government elected by its people. Such an action is unacceptable in the 21st century.
--  Chimpy McFlightsuit, CEO of Bu$hco Industries of 'Merka
stroh
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Re: wtf
« Reply #8 on: January 26, 2010, 06:36:03 AM »



which all gets back to my point.  basically it seems like in theory, they could get you inside your house for this unless you lock your keys in a safe that's opened by a passed breathalyzer+retinaeyescan+dnaswab -- this "domain of exerciaibility of control" clause or whatnot is so vague and powerful... 




I meant to address this earlier and forgot. 

This is already on the books!  Seriously.  I assumed it was Federal but maybe just MN.

Luckily it seems to only be enforced (at least the ones you actually hear about) are in domestic violence cases.

Guy gets home, car in the garage, door down, keys on the nightstand and then he and the wife mix it up, she calls 911.  Cops show up she says "Well he got home from the bar about an hour ago and....."  Boom.  Breathalyzer.  Eyewitness report plus physical control.  DWI.

Scary stuff.
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stroh
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Re: wtf
« Reply #9 on: January 26, 2010, 08:47:08 PM »

Being away for 13 hours at a shot sucks.

Getting back to physical control;

Even with the mountain of case law against us we decided to fight on the grounds of illegal search and seizure.

The cop claims he entered my vehicle (property) fearing I may be in need of urgent medical attention and life saving measures.  Finding that I did not, but instead intoxicated and in physical control and in violation.

Well we fought that you can not have both.  E.G. If you violate my civil rights under the protection of life saving measures fearing that I may be incapacitated, then at that point I cannot be by definition in physical control.  You can't have it both ways.

The judge, MADD, lobbyists, and others with money see it differently.

No shot.  That's how bad it is.

On a similar note, have any of you read, heard or followed any of the hub-bub (that actually started in an Anoka County, MN ) case that may have far reaching impact and the possibility of overturning tons of convictions on DWI cases by the software maker of the Intoxlyzer 9000 or what ever the *fudge* the name is not releasing the source code for the processor under subpoena?

Very interesting stuff.
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