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get your $1200 in may .. whoopdeedoo

 
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hobbit
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Re: get your $1200 in may .. whoopdeedoo
« Reply #30 on: February 08, 2008, 01:25:03 PM »

fortunately those tax cuts for the rich aren't just advance loans though
 Devil

Huh?

Is 'tax cuts for the rich' another line with a hook on it for me  Wink , or do you believe it?



both
 Smiley


Well, my proof is at home - I'll try to post it later tonight.

Yes, its more boring number analysis, but I'll add some charts for stroh  Wink

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Aske
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Re: get your $1200 in may .. whoopdeedoo
« Reply #31 on: February 08, 2008, 01:26:53 PM »

was the top tax bracket rate not dropped from 39.x% to 35% ?
 Devil Grin Grin  Wink
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Russia has invaded a sovereign neighboring state and threatens a democratic government elected by its people. Such an action is unacceptable in the 21st century.
--  Chimpy McFlightsuit, CEO of Bu$hco Industries of 'Merka
Clive
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Re: get your $1200 in may .. whoopdeedoo
« Reply #32 on: February 08, 2008, 01:57:42 PM »

OK, I think I have it confirmed.

The tax rate on the first $6000 earned has been changed for 2008: dropped from 10% to ZERO.  So your total tax liability (the amount you owe on your income, according to the tables and before any credits or payments made) will be reduced by $600 in 2008.  You're getting that money now; I'd call that economic stimulus check a Tax-Year-2008 "pre-refund".

Form 1040, line 37 = adjusted gross income.
Form 1040, line 43 = taxable income (AGI minus certain deductions and exemptions).
Form 1040, line 44 = tax liability based on taxable income (line 43).
Form 1040, lines 58-63 = other lines to enter additional tax obligations; my guess is that this is the section where you have to enter the "pre-refunded" $600.

So ... come early 2009, when you're filing that 1040 on your calendar-year 2008 income, you'll have to apply a $600/person debit below the line
  • If your net would have been a refund of >$600, you get [calculated refund due minus $600];
  • If your net would have been a refund of exactly $600, you get nothing [calculated refund due minus $600];
  • If your net would have been a refund of <$600, you OWE [calculated refund due minus $600]; and
  • If your net would have been a debt of any amount, you OWE [calculated debt due plus $600].

Bottom line: Stroh hates Menard's.
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Aske
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Re: get your $1200 in may .. whoopdeedoo
« Reply #33 on: February 08, 2008, 02:02:10 PM »

so hypothetically ...

2006 you got $500 back
2007 you got $500 back
2008 you are supposed to get $500 back
2009 you are supposed to (pre changes) get $500 back


vs what has been enacted...

2008 you now get $1100 back
2009 you owe $100  (plus or minus)


average joes in this scenario will have no concept of this, and be very very pissed off. 
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Russia has invaded a sovereign neighboring state and threatens a democratic government elected by its people. Such an action is unacceptable in the 21st century.
--  Chimpy McFlightsuit, CEO of Bu$hco Industries of 'Merka
Uisce Beatha
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Re: get your $1200 in may .. whoopdeedoo
« Reply #34 on: February 08, 2008, 02:13:56 PM »

If it's like last time the prebate is simply calculated as income for the following year and possibly won't affect your obligation at all.  If it does, minimally so.

Unless I misremember.   Help
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hobbit
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Re: get your $1200 in may .. whoopdeedoo
« Reply #35 on: February 08, 2008, 02:21:50 PM »

was the top tax bracket rate not dropped from 39.x% to 35% ?
 Devil Grin Grin  Wink


And you think thats the end of the story?   Devil Grin Grin Wink

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Aske
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Re: get your $1200 in may .. whoopdeedoo
« Reply #36 on: February 08, 2008, 02:34:11 PM »

was the top tax bracket rate not dropped from 39.x% to 35% ?
 Devil Grin Grin  Wink


And you think thats the end of the story?   Devil Grin Grin Wink



well, throwing some #'s completely off the top of my head (as i can't remember the exact tax rates/thresholds)   let's give a semi-reasonable hypothetical

married couple making 100k gets some small rate adjustment that lowers their net effective rate to say 18.0% vs 20.% .  They now have 2000 more to spend/save/invest  hypothethically  .  Their effective spending capability went up  2.5 %.  Basically enough to skip 1 mortgage payment.

rich CEO asshat making $10M gets dropped from 39.x % to 35% top rate which should make his effective rate about 34% instead of 39%.   he now has about 450,000 more to spend/save/invest.  His effective spending capability went up  7.5%  . Putting that in a crappy CD alone would net him $25-30k  in one year.   (nevermind he'll use it to buy stock options in his company, then run it into the ground and become a mega-billionaire  Devil ) .   That 'tax cut' 1 year interest from a CD would pay couple 1's mortgage for a year.    And that 1 year tax savings would be enough to put couple #1's kids through college. or repave a mile of road.  or buy a couple of heart transplants.  or possibly fund research into alternative energy materials by promising post-docs  Wink  Instead it will be used to turn his millions into billions. or a yacht.   Disgusted  Which has the greater overall societal good?  Tough call.



And yeh, that's not the 'whole' or the 'end' of the story.  Just putting some #'s on it.

So um yeh
« Last Edit: February 08, 2008, 02:47:09 PM by Aske » Logged Return to Top

Quote
Russia has invaded a sovereign neighboring state and threatens a democratic government elected by its people. Such an action is unacceptable in the 21st century.
--  Chimpy McFlightsuit, CEO of Bu$hco Industries of 'Merka
Clive
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Re: get your $1200 in may .. whoopdeedoo
« Reply #37 on: February 08, 2008, 02:41:54 PM »

If it's like last time the prebate is simply calculated as income for the following year and possibly won't affect your obligation at all.  If it does, minimally so.

Unless I misremember.   Help
so hypothetically ...
2006 you got $500 back
2007 you got $500 back
2008 you are supposed to get $500 back
2009 you are supposed to (pre changes) get $500 back

vs what has been enacted...

2008 you now get $1100 back
2009 you owe $100  (plus or minus)

average joes in this scenario will have no concept of this, and be very very pissed off.
Technically:
2007 -- you got $500 back (based on your 2006 taxes)
2008 -- you got $500 back (based on your 2007 taxes)
June 2008 -- they give you a $600 advance on what your 2008 refund might be
2009 -- you would have gotten $500 back (based on your 2008 taxes), but they already gave you $600, so you owe $100

Uisce, I can't find information to suggest this rebate is to be treated as income.
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Aske
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Re: get your $1200 in may .. whoopdeedoo
« Reply #38 on: February 08, 2008, 02:44:46 PM »


average joes in this scenario will have no concept of this, and be very very pissed off.
Technically:
2007 -- you got $500 back (based on your 2006 taxes)
2008 -- you got $500 back (based on your 2007 taxes)
June 2008 -- they give you a $600 advance on what your 2008 refund might be
2009 -- you would have gotten $500 back (based on your 2008 taxes), but they already gave you $600, so you owe $100

Uisce, I can't find information to suggest this rebate is to be treated as income.


yeh, that's what I was figuring.  I personally (my small anecdotal circle of friends/family/etc) who will be in situations like/near this.  Yearly get a little back.  This year, will get a 'lot' back .  Next year will get a nice surprise shaft.  I'll start warning them now.   Invest. *fudge* the 'econononomonomonee
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Quote
Russia has invaded a sovereign neighboring state and threatens a democratic government elected by its people. Such an action is unacceptable in the 21st century.
--  Chimpy McFlightsuit, CEO of Bu$hco Industries of 'Merka
Aske
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Re: get your $1200 in may .. whoopdeedoo
« Reply #39 on: February 08, 2008, 02:48:42 PM »

{long winded blah blah}

So um yeh

actually after looking it up, make that almost 2 miles of blacktop
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Quote
Russia has invaded a sovereign neighboring state and threatens a democratic government elected by its people. Such an action is unacceptable in the 21st century.
--  Chimpy McFlightsuit, CEO of Bu$hco Industries of 'Merka
Clive
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Re: get your $1200 in may .. whoopdeedoo
« Reply #40 on: February 08, 2008, 02:57:40 PM »

yeh, that's what I was figuring.  I personally (my small anecdotal circle of friends/family/etc) who will be in situations like/near this.  Yearly get a little back.  This year, will get a 'lot' back .  Next year will get a nice surprise shaft.  I'll start warning them now.   Invest. *fudge* the 'econononomonomonee
But I need to verify the payback scenario.  It may well be that if you end up owing (without considering the $600), IRS doesn't add the $600 to your debt.  If so, I'm definitely changing my W-4 for 2008.
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stroh
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Re: get your $1200 in may .. whoopdeedoo
« Reply #41 on: February 08, 2008, 02:58:11 PM »

Did you forget what I said about kayaking and *feces*?
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Clive
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Re: get your $1200 in may .. whoopdeedoo
« Reply #42 on: February 08, 2008, 03:00:17 PM »

well, throwing some #'s completely off the top of my head (as i can't remember the exact tax rates/thresholds)   let's give a semi-reasonable hypothetical

married couple making 100k gets some small rate adjustment that lowers their net effective rate to say 18.0% vs 20.% .  They now have 2000 more to spend/save/invest  hypothethically  .  Their effective spending capability went up  2.5 %.  Basically enough to skip 1 mortgage payment.

rich CEO asshat making $10M gets dropped from 39.x % to 35% top rate which should make his effective rate about 34% instead of 39%.   he now has about 450,000 more to spend/save/invest.  His effective spending capability went up  7.5%  . Putting that in a crappy CD alone would net him $25-30k  in one year.   (nevermind he'll use it to buy stock options in his company, then run it into the ground and become a mega-billionaire  Devil ) .   That 'tax cut' 1 year interest from a CD would pay couple 1's mortgage for a year.    And that 1 year tax savings would be enough to put couple #1's kids through college. or repave a mile of road.  or buy a couple of heart transplants.  or possibly fund research into alternative energy materials by promising post-docs  Wink  Instead it will be used to turn his millions into billions. or a yacht.   Disgusted  Which has the greater overall societal good?  Tough call.

And yeh, that's not the 'whole' or the 'end' of the story.  Just putting some #'s on it.

So um yeh
So what's your point?  You should pay less taxes but Rich Asshats should pay what they already pay (or more?)?  Why don't we just hold your rate constant and crank the rate on Rich Asshats?  Wait, didn't we just have this thread a couple weeks ago?

If I may ask: where, numerically, do you draw the line between honest, hardworking, unassuming Americans and Rich Asshats?
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spacey
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Re: get your $1200 in may .. whoopdeedoo
« Reply #43 on: February 08, 2008, 03:01:28 PM »

So, then, you're telling me my Harley shouldn't get new pipes in June because my wife would rather I squirrel the money away to fund the Spring '09 vacation?
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stroh
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Re: get your $1200 in may .. whoopdeedoo
« Reply #44 on: February 08, 2008, 03:01:48 PM »

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