spacey
Amazing Technicolor Dreamcoat From: Group W Bench
Karma: 98 Posts: 7733
Offline
|
|
Re: Guns [Politics/Religion]
« Reply #15 on: March 13, 2008, 11:43:34 AM » |
|
Only scanned the responses so forgive me if I'm unoriginal or redundant:
My grandfather was a real-live cowboy, mister, and he slept with a loaded revolver within arms reach until the day he died. My dad owned a .44 Magnum revolver and a 10 gauge shot gun, which my mom asked him to get rid of when we were teenagers. He hunted as a kid, but not when he got older. Today, for reasons unannounced to me, he is pretty anti-guns. My older brother and one of my uncles don't even go out to get the mail without packing heat. I've seen some pretty rabid exchanges between all of them.
I have never owned a gun, but have shot plenty of them. I won't lie, I like shooting guns. I fail, however, to find any personal need to own one. I am neither specifically pro-gun nor anti-gun.
I do favor gun control to a certain degree, i.e.- more stringent background checks, eliminating "free trade" guns at gun shows, etc. I don't believe anyone outside of the military has a true need for an assault rifle, but I also don't believe that banning them outright would have any effect whatsoever on the number of firearm homicides.
Guns are such a fully entrenched part of America's culture, I don't honestly see how you could possibly eliminate them in a safe or effective manner. And yeah I do buy the line about only outlaws owning guns. I don't, however, buy the rhetoric about more guns making society safer, nor do I buy the rhetoric about keeping government in check.
I think too many assumptions are made about the ability of the average gun owner to be able to safely and accurately assess, draw, aim, and fire in a high pressure situation. I don't care how many clips a person can unload squarely in the middle of the target at Lee-Kay firing range, as Han Solo said "good against remotes is one thing, good against the living? That's something else." I think the discussion about "imagine how VT would have been different if every student had a gun" is simply speculation about how things would be different if things were different.
Regarding keeping the government in check: if push came to shove, the U.S. Military would flatten any domestic insurgency threat fairly handily. Yeah, it's probably the original intent of the 2nd amendment, but I believe the idea is a relic. Anyone who truly believes it applies to modern weaponry or the modern military is fooling himself. Personally, though, I give our military more credit than that. I don't honestly believe there is a scenario in which our entire military would turn on the people of the U.S. at the command of any government leader or body. Maybe I'm just naive, but I believe the vote and access to information is what keeps the government in check (mostly).
I also believe the "well regulated militia" clause is important, and I don't think it was accidental. However, what amounted to a well regulated militia in 1776 is not the same in 2008. Unfortunately, our founding fathers, while having some pretty good ideas, couldn't see into the future. Of course I can only speculate as to what they might have written if they were able to know what the world would be like 232 years later. So I won't.
Guns might not kill people, but they make it a lot easier to do so. A world without guns is a world without VT shootings, drive-by killings, etc. Unfortunately, however, I don't think, given the American psyche, that a world without guns is an attainable goal. Therefore, I try to be pragmatic about my approach to the subject. The genie is out of the bottle, and I see no realistic way to put it back in. Keeping guns out of the hands of everyone is simply not a practical approach, but I believe more could and should be done to keep guns out of the hands of the wrong people. Unfortunately, I believe the overinflated rhetoric on both sides of the issue prevents meaningful action.
|
|
« Last Edit: March 13, 2008, 11:46:44 AM by spacey »
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
gleek
Flak Jacket
Karma: 107 Posts: 9510
OfflineE chu ta!
|
|
Re: Guns [Politics/Religion]
« Reply #16 on: March 13, 2008, 11:48:36 AM » |
|
A good start might be an iPhone for guns exchange.
|
|
|
Logged
|
Woman, open the door, don't let it sting. I wanna breathe that fire again.
|
|
|
Torpedo
Full Metal Jacket
Karma: 9 Posts: -5252
OfflineADP for MVP!
|
|
Re: Guns [Politics/Religion]
« Reply #17 on: March 13, 2008, 11:49:49 AM » |
|
A good start might be an iPhone for guns exchange.
Lousy trade.
|
|
|
Logged
|
Amateurs built the Ark, professionals built the Titanic ... "And Adrian Peterson is loose!"
|
|
|
Fuzzy
Full Metal Jacket From: Island of Misfit Toys
Karma: 61 Posts: 4836
Offline
|
|
Re: Guns [Politics/Religion]
« Reply #18 on: March 13, 2008, 11:51:00 AM » |
|
spacey's take
One of the better posts on this topic on any board I've read.
|
|
|
Logged
|
"You have brains in your head. You have feet in your shoes. You can steer yourself any direction you choose." From Oh the Places You'll Go, by Dr. Seuss (Theodor Geisel)
|
|
|
Aske
Lederhosen
Karma: 120 Posts: 31405
Offline
|
|
Re: Guns [Politics/Religion]
« Reply #19 on: March 13, 2008, 11:52:14 AM » |
|
spacey's take
One of the better posts on this topic on any board I've read. agreed with most of it myself. about a specific point. if the founding fathers saw what this country had become today (particularly last 8 years) they'd be sick.
|
|
|
Logged
|
Russia has invaded a sovereign neighboring state and threatens a democratic government elected by its people. Such an action is unacceptable in the 21st century. -- Chimpy McFlightsuit, CEO of Bu$hco Industries of 'Merka
|
|
|
Uisce Beatha
Amazing Technicolor Dreamcoat From: In the Jar
Karma: 116 Posts: 7357
OfflineGet me the tank!
|
|
Re: Guns [Politics/Religion]
« Reply #20 on: March 13, 2008, 11:52:26 AM » |
|
spacey's take
One of the better posts on this any topic on any board I've read. Good goin' spacey. I knew you had it in ya.
|
|
|
Logged
|
"If you're darker than a caramel, Reverend Al speaks for you." - Aasif Mandvi "Well, you can tell by the way I use my walk, I'm a woman's man: no time to talk." - stroh
|
|
|
gleek
Flak Jacket
Karma: 107 Posts: 9510
OfflineE chu ta!
|
|
Re: Guns [Politics/Religion]
« Reply #21 on: March 13, 2008, 11:54:40 AM » |
|
spacey's take
One of the better posts on this topic on any board I've read. I agree. Now try to figure out what he edited from his original post.
|
|
|
Logged
|
Woman, open the door, don't let it sting. I wanna breathe that fire again.
|
|
|
Uisce Beatha
Amazing Technicolor Dreamcoat From: In the Jar
Karma: 116 Posts: 7357
OfflineGet me the tank!
|
|
Re: Guns [Politics/Religion]
« Reply #22 on: March 13, 2008, 11:56:09 AM » |
|
spacey's take
One of the better posts on this topic on any board I've read. I agree. Now try to figure out what he edited from his original post. He removed two occurrences of 'irregardless'. However, he missed changing 'clip' to 'magazine'.
|
|
« Last Edit: March 13, 2008, 11:58:16 AM by Uisce Beatha »
|
Logged
|
"If you're darker than a caramel, Reverend Al speaks for you." - Aasif Mandvi "Well, you can tell by the way I use my walk, I'm a woman's man: no time to talk." - stroh
|
|
|
gleek
Flak Jacket
Karma: 107 Posts: 9510
OfflineE chu ta!
|
|
Re: Guns [Politics/Religion]
« Reply #23 on: March 13, 2008, 11:59:19 AM » |
|
spacey's take
One of the better posts on this topic on any board I've read. I agree. Now try to figure out what he edited from his original post. He removed two occurrences of 'irregardless'. If only the framers had a "Modify" button...
|
|
|
Logged
|
Woman, open the door, don't let it sting. I wanna breathe that fire again.
|
|
|
Blader
Straitjacket
Karma: 21 Posts: 2075
Offlinevagazzling vajayjays since 1876!!
|
|
Re: Guns [Politics/Religion]
« Reply #24 on: March 13, 2008, 12:01:43 PM » |
|
spacey's take
One of the better posts on this topic on any board I've read. I agree with just about all of this. Irregardless, I'd think it would be useful to try to run the 'gun free society' experiment. Logic dictates that fewer people will be dead from random acts of violence. ps, I used to hunt....back during my "walk through the woods with a purpose" phase
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
spacey
Amazing Technicolor Dreamcoat From: Group W Bench
Karma: 98 Posts: 7733
Offline
|
|
Re: Guns [Politics/Religion]
« Reply #25 on: March 13, 2008, 12:08:48 PM » |
|
spacey's take
One of the better posts on this topic on any board I've read. I agree. Now try to figure out what he edited from his original post. (I forgot to complete my statement about what I naively believe keeps the gov't in check. Though reading it over again, I could probably add a few more "however"s and a handful of additional commas.)
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
Clive
Full Metal Jacket
Karma: 77 Posts: 4358
Offline
|
|
Re: Guns [Politics/Religion]
« Reply #26 on: March 13, 2008, 12:45:26 PM » |
|
Regarding keeping the government in check: if push came to shove, the U.S. Military would flatten any domestic insurgency threat fairly handily. Yeah, it's probably the original intent of the 2nd amendment, but I believe the idea is a relic. Anyone who truly believes it applies to modern weaponry or the modern military is fooling himself. Personally, though, I give our military more credit than that. I don't honestly believe there is a scenario in which our entire military would turn on the people of the U.S. at the command of any government leader or body. Maybe I'm just naive, but I believe the vote and access to information is what keeps the government in check (mostly). I idly wonder what percent of Americans believes that his/her vote does not exert non-trivial control over the government. If the two percentages are roughly the same, perhaps we should also talk about banning the "right" to vote?
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
stroh
Sleeveless Hoodie From: Impact Crater Springs, CA
Karma: 155 Posts: 16135
OfflineWe're doomed!
|
|
Re: Guns [Politics/Religion]
« Reply #27 on: March 13, 2008, 01:18:47 PM » |
|
spacey's take
One of the better posts on this any topic on any board I've read. Good goin' spacey. I knew you had it in ya. I'll be honest with, I got bored about a paragraph into it.
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
1puttpar
Vest & Plus Fours From: Loomis, CA
Karma: 16 Posts: 717
Offline
|
|
Re: Guns [Politics/Religion]
« Reply #28 on: March 13, 2008, 01:31:59 PM » |
|
Jericho.surrenders
|
|
|
Logged
|
I really hate Vista
|
|
|
Spanky
Full Metal Jacket
Karma: 48 Posts: 4842
Offline
|
|
Re: Guns [Politics/Religion]
« Reply #29 on: March 13, 2008, 02:01:20 PM » |
|
Only scanned the responses so forgive me if I'm unoriginal or redundant:
I also believe the "well regulated militia" clause is important, and I don't think it was accidental. However, what amounted to a well regulated militia in 1776 is not the same in 2008. Unfortunately, our founding fathers, while having some pretty good ideas, couldn't see into the future. Of course I can only speculate as to what they might have written if they were able to know what the world would be like 232 years later. So I won't.
This sums up my feelings as well. People 200 years ago would never have guessed what the world is like today. The intent was to allow the people in the late 1700's to be able to defend themselves from invading armies, ie Brittan. The army back then was basically armed farmers. The world was different when that document was written. Most people that read it don't take that into account, read NRA. I don't have any guns only because Darla does not want any in the house. If I could I would have a pistol, rifle, and probably a shotgun. I too love shooting for sport. I will leave it as I really dont have anything else to contribute other then I am glad this is civil and most of us agree. If anyone was to disagree I still think we would be civil. Peace out brother hos.
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|