Uisce Beatha
Amazing Technicolor Dreamcoat From: In the Jar
Karma: 116 Posts: 7357
 OfflineGet me the tank!
 
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Re: UB- apple trying to commit suicide ?
« Reply #15 on: April 12, 2008, 11:24:42 AM » |
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Like Kevie just said, we thought to give the latest Windows version a try. It was fine, unless you wanted to actually view a website. What use is a browser that won't even load a page? How did that even get released?  Safari 3 is a great browser. Given its very serious development tools it might bump Firefox/Firebug as my dev browser of choice. LOL @ it blows on Windows (your Windows anyway.) Whouddathunkit?  |
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"If you're darker than a caramel, Reverend Al speaks for you." - Aasif Mandvi
"Well, you can tell by the way I use my walk, I'm a woman's man: no time to talk." - stroh
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gleek
Flak Jacket
Karma: 107 Posts: 9510
OfflineE chu ta!
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Re: UB- apple trying to commit suicide ?
« Reply #16 on: April 12, 2008, 11:56:16 AM » |
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I think nobody, never mind Apple, wants to model themselves on the cluster*fudge* that is Microsoft.
LMAO Bull*feces*. If companies knew could achieve the same kind of dominant position that Microsoft has, they'd follow the same blueprint. The only reason companies don't is because they know they'll get crushed. LMAO Read the *goshdarn* post. I said nothing about not wanted Microsoft's dominant position in the OS market which eventually *nix (including Apple) will take. Microsoft's dominant position is going to completely erode over the next ten years because of their disastrous blueprint. A main reason Apple doesn't follow that blueprint is because they would lose control of the situation. They will never, ever, license the OS while Jobs or like thinkers are in charge. If they do, they mire in a morass of hardware/peripheral/driver support forever. Compare the MP3 (term used loosely) market and the OS market and how the two companies have positioned themselves. If you can't see the differences...  I read your post, and it's typical Apple evangelism. My point was that if the "blueprint", even with whatever flaws that you think it has, is likely to achieve a dominant position in the market EVERY company, including Apple, would follow it. The problem is that there's no guarantee that anybody could pull it off, especially with Microsoft still around. Your responses are typical MS short-sightedness. I remember Big Blue guys saying the same sort of things in the 80s when a lean and hungry Microsoft was on the rise. LOL You're missing my point again. I don't think Microsoft can or should rest on its laurels. The point I'm making is that you're criticizing Microsoft for the route it took, yet I bet Steve Jobs would give both of his testicles to have Apple in the same position Microsoft is in right now. You're using the IBM analogy to spell Microsoft's doom, yet big fat bloated Microsoft's operating margin is over 40% while quick and nimble Apple's operating margin is 19% and change. You can criticize Microsoft's products and some of the missteps they've taken, but you can't argue that Microsoft isn't a well-run company. Microsoft is a victim of earlier decisions. Those decisions got them where they are today, no doubt about it, but in addition to really understanding a need and filling it they also benefited due to the competition being weak and/or not REALLY believing in the desktop and a decentralized computing world. That's not the case today. Microsoft is up to their ears in competition yet they're handcuffed by having to support a decade or two worth of applications, drivers, externals, etc. They can't cut bait like Apple did after the Scully years. Apple was small enough and their users were more devotees than consumers. They were able to get away with it and start 100% from scratch. Vista I guess was meant to be something along those lines but it is a poor imitation of such thinking. Microsoft is stuck. They haven't really innovated in years and they're being saved by legacy applications and the dependence of the enterprise.
Do you really think Microsoft takes on the responsibility of maintaining the drivers for the thousands of companies that make devices to run on Windows? People bitch and moan about Vista, but if you're in the business of developing software and hardware to earn a living, you welcome significant changes to the OS kernel. It's an opportunity to sell the new version of your product. If not for the open architecture of the Wintel model, literally thousands of companies wouldn't be where they are now. IMO, Microsoft isn't the dominant player on the desktop because of Microsoft. It's the dominant player because of all the alliances that it forged. If not for Vista, I'd still be using Quickbooks 2001. I can guarantee Intuit isn't pissed off about Vista. It'll change. You want to say I'm an Apple evangelist. That's fine. I am. Doesn't mean I think Apple will rise to 50% of the OS market share. Nowhere near it. I do believe *nix will though, and beyond, and I'm lumping Apple in there. You can see it already on campuses in a big way and the enterprise is right behind them. We have 60 developers and 25 assorted others at my company. Ubuntu, CentOS and Mac probably make up 80% of the dev machines. Redhat and Solaris make up 100% of our staging and production machines. The 25 assorted others are still on Windows for the most part. I give that 2-3 years.
Microsoft's OS dominance has nowhere to go but down, and I'm pretty sure that they're well aware of the challenges that they're facing from open-source and free operating systems. As an Applehead, you should worry more about Apple's share of the MP3 player market. Apple's dominance in that market is predicated on the "coolness" factor to teens, and as we all know teen trends don't last very long. Microsoft needs to reinvent itself. I haven't seen any indication that's going to happen. And I don't see Apple or anyone else saying, "yeah, that's the ticket." They want the revenues and success, certainly, but they're not going to follow the Microsoft route to get it.
If you haven't seen any indication, you're probably not looking very hard. |
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Woman, open the door, don't let it sting. I wanna breathe that fire again.
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gleek
Flak Jacket
Karma: 107 Posts: 9510
OfflineE chu ta!
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Re: UB- apple trying to commit suicide ?
« Reply #17 on: April 12, 2008, 12:08:13 PM » |
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Like Kevie just said, we thought to give the latest Windows version a try. It was fine, unless you wanted to actually view a website. What use is a browser that won't even load a page? How did that even get released? Safari 3 is a great browser. Given its very serious development tools it might bump Firefox/Firebug as my dev browser of choice. LOL @ it blows on Windows (your Windows anyway.) Whouddathunkit? Sorry, UB, Apple can't be perfect at everything. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Safari_(web_browser) At the 2008 PWN 2 OWN security conference hosted by CanSecWest, a browser exploit in Safari caused Mac OS X to be the first to fall in a "hacker Super Bowl." Participants competed to find a way to read the contents of a file located on one of three operating systems: Mac OS X Leopard, Windows Vista SP1, and Ubuntu 7.10. On the second day of the contest, when users were allowed to physically interact with the computers, Charlie Miller took over a default installation of Mac OS X within two minutes, using a 0day exploit in Safari.[17] Windows Vista fell the following day (when third-party software was allowed) to an Adobe Flash exploit, leaving Ubuntu as the "winner."
LMAO |
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Woman, open the door, don't let it sting. I wanna breathe that fire again.
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Uisce Beatha
Amazing Technicolor Dreamcoat From: In the Jar
Karma: 116 Posts: 7357
OfflineGet me the tank!
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Re: UB- apple trying to commit suicide ?
« Reply #18 on: April 12, 2008, 12:09:51 PM » |
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I didn't criticize MS for the route it took. I gave them credit for it. I then mentioned that it's hurting them now. They're unable to be as agile as their competition in today's environment. I've seen your point since your first post. I just disagree with it. If you asked Job would he rather have Bill Gates share of Microsoft or his own share of Apple he'd take the former I should think. Money is money. If you asked him if he'd rather run Microsoft or run Apple he'd stay put. If you haven't seen any indication [of innovation], you're probably not looking very hard.
Without a doubt you're correct. I don't click on microsoft.com when in the market for innovation. Just doesn't cross my mind. Along with those trendy teens, college students, IT departments and a growing number of random humans worldwide. |
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"If you're darker than a caramel, Reverend Al speaks for you." - Aasif Mandvi
"Well, you can tell by the way I use my walk, I'm a woman's man: no time to talk." - stroh
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Uisce Beatha
Amazing Technicolor Dreamcoat From: In the Jar
Karma: 116 Posts: 7357
OfflineGet me the tank!
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Re: UB- apple trying to commit suicide ?
« Reply #19 on: April 12, 2008, 12:18:25 PM » |
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No, Apple's not perfect. I distinctly remember not saying that evar. I'll take my chances with Mac OS, a weekly perusal of http://www.us-cert.gov/cu...ent/current_activity.html and nothing more than a software firewall plus a tiny bit of common sense. You can glee(k)fully LYAO at me when my systems are exploited. |
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"If you're darker than a caramel, Reverend Al speaks for you." - Aasif Mandvi
"Well, you can tell by the way I use my walk, I'm a woman's man: no time to talk." - stroh
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gleek
Flak Jacket
Karma: 107 Posts: 9510
OfflineE chu ta!
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Re: UB- apple trying to commit suicide ?
« Reply #20 on: April 12, 2008, 12:18:41 PM » |
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I didn't criticize MS for the route it took. I gave them credit for it. I then mentioned that it's hurting them now. They're unable to be as agile as their competition in today's environment. I've seen your point since your first post. I just disagree with it. If you asked Job would he rather have Bill Gates share of Microsoft or his own share of Apple he'd take the former I should think. Money is money. If you asked him if he'd rather run Microsoft or run Apple he'd stay put. If you haven't seen any indication [of innovation], you're probably not looking very hard.
Without a doubt you're correct. I don't click on microsoft.com when in the market for innovation. Just doesn't cross my mind. Along with those trendy teens, college students, IT departments and a growing number of random humans worldwide. Oh, you mean innovation like OS X, which is a flavor of Linux, which is a flavor of Unix, which has been around since at least the 70s? No, you're not going to find any of that on any of Microsoft's websites. |
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Woman, open the door, don't let it sting. I wanna breathe that fire again.
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Aske
Lederhosen
Karma: 120 Posts: 31405
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Re: UB- apple trying to commit suicide ?
« Reply #21 on: April 12, 2008, 12:20:43 PM » |
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someone remind me what this thread was about ?  |
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Russia has invaded a sovereign neighboring state and threatens a democratic government elected by its people. Such an action is unacceptable in the 21st century. -- Chimpy McFlightsuit, CEO of Bu$hco Industries of 'Merka |
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gleek
Flak Jacket
Karma: 107 Posts: 9510
OfflineE chu ta!
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Re: UB- apple trying to commit suicide ?
« Reply #22 on: April 12, 2008, 12:21:23 PM » |
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No, Apple's not perfect. I distinctly remember not saying that evar. I'll take my chances with Mac OS, a weekly perusal of http://www.us-cert.gov/cu...ent/current_activity.html and nothing more than a software firewall plus a tiny bit of common sense. You can glee(k)fully LYAO at me when my systems are exploited. And that's pretty much all it takes to secure any machine--even a Windows machine. |
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Woman, open the door, don't let it sting. I wanna breathe that fire again.
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Uisce Beatha
Amazing Technicolor Dreamcoat From: In the Jar
Karma: 116 Posts: 7357
OfflineGet me the tank!
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Re: UB- apple trying to commit suicide ?
« Reply #23 on: April 12, 2008, 12:22:46 PM » |
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Oh, you mean innovation like OS X, which is a flavor of Linux, which is a flavor of Unix, which has been around since at least the 70s? No, you're not going to find any of that on any of Microsoft's websites.
ORLY? I thought you were mentorsports, not azcowboy.  |
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"If you're darker than a caramel, Reverend Al speaks for you." - Aasif Mandvi
"Well, you can tell by the way I use my walk, I'm a woman's man: no time to talk." - stroh
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gleek
Flak Jacket
Karma: 107 Posts: 9510
OfflineE chu ta!
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Re: UB- apple trying to commit suicide ?
« Reply #24 on: April 12, 2008, 12:23:09 PM » |
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someone remind me what this thread was about ? Any discussion of Apple is automatically an opportunity to bash Microsoft. That's apparently the nature of being an Apple devotee. |
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Woman, open the door, don't let it sting. I wanna breathe that fire again.
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stroh
Sleeveless Hoodie From: Impact Crater Springs, CA
Karma: 155 Posts: 16135
OfflineWe're doomed!
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Re: UB- apple trying to commit suicide ?
« Reply #25 on: April 12, 2008, 12:23:22 PM » |
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someone remind me what this thread was about ? I've been trying to make it about me. |
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Uisce Beatha
Amazing Technicolor Dreamcoat From: In the Jar
Karma: 116 Posts: 7357
OfflineGet me the tank!
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Re: UB- apple trying to commit suicide ?
« Reply #26 on: April 12, 2008, 12:23:44 PM » |
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No, Apple's not perfect. I distinctly remember not saying that evar. I'll take my chances with Mac OS, a weekly perusal of http://www.us-cert.gov/cu...ent/current_activity.html and nothing more than a software firewall plus a tiny bit of common sense. You can glee(k)fully LYAO at me when my systems are exploited. And that's pretty much all it takes to secure any machine--even a Windows machine. So you're running no virus-protection at all then? |
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"If you're darker than a caramel, Reverend Al speaks for you." - Aasif Mandvi
"Well, you can tell by the way I use my walk, I'm a woman's man: no time to talk." - stroh
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gleek
Flak Jacket
Karma: 107 Posts: 9510
OfflineE chu ta!
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Re: UB- apple trying to commit suicide ?
« Reply #27 on: April 12, 2008, 12:24:50 PM » |
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Oh, you mean innovation like OS X, which is a flavor of Linux, which is a flavor of Unix, which has been around since at least the 70s? No, you're not going to find any of that on any of Microsoft's websites.
ORLY? I thought you were mentorsports, not azcowboy. Oh, I forgot. Linus Torvald got absolutely no inspiration from Unix. |
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Woman, open the door, don't let it sting. I wanna breathe that fire again.
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Torpedo
Full Metal Jacket
Karma: 9 Posts: -2909
OfflineADP for MVP!
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Re: UB- apple trying to commit suicide ?
« Reply #28 on: April 12, 2008, 12:28:36 PM » |
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 Who needs cast Vs Forged?  |
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Amateurs built the Ark, professionals built the Titanic ...  "And Adrian Peterson is loose!" |
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Uisce Beatha
Amazing Technicolor Dreamcoat From: In the Jar
Karma: 116 Posts: 7357
OfflineGet me the tank!
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Re: UB- apple trying to commit suicide ?
« Reply #29 on: April 12, 2008, 12:29:55 PM » |
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someone remind me what this thread was about ? Any discussion of Apple is automatically an opportunity to bash Microsoft. That's apparently the nature of being an Apple devotee. I spend a significant portion of my work life making W3C validated websites work with IE (margin hacks, z-index failures, no CSS tables support, the list goes on.) When I owned my company it literally cost me tens of thousands of dollars out of my own pocket chasing down their incompetence and arrogance. I'm guessing you'll likely call bull*feces* on that. That's fine. It's 100% the truth. Bashing Microsoft is the least of what I'd like to do to them. I'd badly like IE to disappear from the face of the planet. |
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"If you're darker than a caramel, Reverend Al speaks for you." - Aasif Mandvi
"Well, you can tell by the way I use my walk, I'm a woman's man: no time to talk." - stroh
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