Alcohol Discussion.

trust me on this, i was in our local pub tonight (and this is FY move in week / grown up re-move in week)  .

most of these tards are not capable of responsible drinking.  that said, they're also perfectably capable of being drafted.  if so, let em get blasted.

rigorously trained to be as obedient as possible

Nope, try again. Rigorously trained, yes. Obedient as possible is a job for the Moonies, not the military.

Jessep: Have you ever spent time in an infantry unit, son?
Kaffee: No sir.
Jessep: Ever served in a forward area?
Kaffee: No sir.
Jessep: Ever put your life in another man's hands, ask him to put his life in yours?
Kaffee: No sir.
Jessep: We follow orders, son. We follow orders or people die. It's that simple. Are we clear?
Kaffee: Yes sir.
Jessep: Are we clear?
Kaffee: Crystal.

Know?  Know?  I just state something and it becomes fact.  (Geez, you'd think people would know me after almost 30,000 posts.)


(That, and friends/family in the military.)

I realize that the comparison between being sent off to war and being responsible enough to drink a beer is not a strong corollary. However, in my estimation, you're either an adult or you're not. Not every 18 year old can be trusted to make good decisions with alcohol, but not every 30 year old, or 50  year old for that matter, can be either.

College campuses are somewhat shackled in their ability to reinforce safe drinking behaviors because by and large most people in college aren't old enough to legally drink. The message to our nations youth is never "drink responsibly," it's always "don't drink until you're old enough." Knowing full well that 18 year olds, or 16 year olds who want to drink will figure out a way, and will probably not do it smartly, and knowing full well that there are just as many mature and responsible 18 year olds as there are 21 year olds, it seems that to deem someone an adult at 18 for all intents and purposes other than the consumption of alcohol is arbitrary and ineffectual.

If 18 is old enough to vote, old enough to enlist in the military, old enough to solely enter into a legally binding contract, old enough to go to prison, old enough to buy a firearm, etc., I think 18 is old enough to buy and drink some beer. If 18 isn't old enough to be trusted to make at least reasonable decisions regarding alcohol, and be held responsible for them, perhaps we should reevaluate whether 18 is old enough to vote, buy a gun, join the army, sign a contract, get married, etc.

Possibly a Utah thing but...

Four underage possession of alcohol tickets.  The first when I was 18.  I wasn't drinking but was "in the area" and bundled with a contributing to the delinquency of minors citation and a night in jail.  (Up by the "B" in spacey-ville for the interested.)

Everyone I knew had multiple possession tickets.  Granted, we partied hard and we partied a lot.  But not far from what I must imagine is the norm in Pittsburgh.  Maybe Clive lived in a better neighborhood.

When I joined the military I forgot to tell them about one of them.  They found out during a background check and while in basic I was under fraudulent enlistment investigation.  Due to my fragile, tear 'em down and build 'em back up state of mind I was in mortal fear of jail for five weeks.  Basic training is tough enough mentally without that hanging over your head. 

I have a rich history of being caught and punished.

My kids will learn (are learning) an appropriate attitude toward alcohol and the laws thereof.  It's possible there will be a bit of civil disobedience involved.

We've already run the experiment.  Keeping it at 21  is "net net" better than going back to 18.