GolfHos
 
*
October 22, 2019, 09:47:42 AM
Username: Password: Duration:

This JUST happened. Options?

 
Pages: [1]   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: This JUST happened. Options?  (Read 2953 times)
0 Members and 1 Lurker/Spider are viewing this topic.
JDerion
Vest & Plus Fours

Karma: 31
Posts: 785
Offline Offline


View ProfileIgnore this user
This JUST happened. Options?
« on: April 05, 2009, 07:34:50 PM »

I'll set the stage here, although most of these details aren't at all relevant to the rules questions, but I know how quiet this section is so I'm sure no one will mind as I build the suspense.

I played in my first tournament of the season this morning. Sadly, I have little to say about my game other than I'm not ready for prime time. The tournament was a shotgun start with ours and one other foursome starting on #14 and finishing on #13.

#13 is a shortish (145 yard) par three with a pond fronting the green. The group ahead of us had just finished the hole, and their round, and had walked off the green. They appeared to be talking, perhaps exchanging scorecards, a few paces off the back of this rather deep green. One of my fellow competitors (Frank) had the tee and took his shot.

Frank probably shouldn't have hit with them still so close to the back of the green, but they didn't seem to be showing any signs of moving, and they had to be at least 30-40 yards past the flag, which was positioned in the front of the green. I don't know how it's been where you guys live, but it has been windy as hell here the last two days. Yesterday the gusts where up to around 50mph, and while today was calmer I'd guess we had winds of 10-35mph gusting all day.

So Frank hits his shot and it's pulled a bit but looks to be set to fall around flag high, but then it carries, and carries some more, and carries some more. He lets out a "Fore!" followed by a "FOORRREE!!!" but there was no reaction. Perhaps the wind and post round conversation consumed their ears, the din of which was shattered by the THUD of the ball hitting one of the guys squarely in the head... HARD. He stumbles and then drops, and so do our stomachs.

It's a sickening feeling to see this happen, I have to say. I've never seen anyone get hit like this before and it was scary. Frank jumped in a cart and went over to see if he was ok. He seemed to be doing alright, and after about five minutes he and his foursome drove back to the clubhouse on the other side of the course and Frank returned to the tee. The three of us had been waiting to hit while he was gone. No one had the guts to try and hit while that poor bastard was still lying on the ground back there.

So the three of us hit our shots and the four of us go back to the green. Frank goes to play his ball which is sitting there at the scene of the crime, and then he realizes the ball isn't his. His Callaway is gone and a shiny new Srixon sits in its place. Now, we all know where we expected Frank's ball to be. We saw it bounce off the guy's head, off a cart, and we all thought it fell straight down after hitting the cart. What seems to have happened was that during the carnage someone dropped their ball, and afterwards picked up Frank's ball. It's the only explanation that makes sense, but we can't ask them because they're GONE. They're not on the next tee; they're back in the clubhouse 1000 yards away.

So Frank goes back to the tee, dumps his 3rd in a bunker and finishes with a six. I'm wondering if we could apply rule 18-1? The rule states that it must be known (it isn't known, we didn't see it) or virtually certain that an outside agency moved the ball. I'm not sure what the standard for virtually certain is, but I think it lies on the stricter side of "more likely than not" or "pretty sure", which is how we all felt about it. I don't think any of us followed the ball once it hit the guy. We all thought it should be laying there, but no one could say that they saw it fall down.

However, we could be certain if, when we get back to the clubhouse, one of them can produce Frank's ball (the make and model of which were known to us, and his mark was distinct). So I was also wondering if Frank could have played both balls on the last hole. Drop one and proceed under 18-1, and play the other ball under stroke and distance. If we are unable to clear up the issue to the threshold of virtual certainty when we get back to the clubhouse, then he will score the 6 on the hole. But if they had the ball, that's good enough for me as his marker and I would be virtually certain that someone picked up his ball in the commotion. 


Logged Return to Top

Sigurdur Hjartarson is a douche bag
spacey
Amazing Technicolor Dreamcoat
From: Group W Bench

Karma: 98
Posts: 7720
Offline Offline


View ProfileIgnore this user
Re: This JUST happened. Options?
« Reply #1 on: April 05, 2009, 09:56:57 PM »

Before I can answer, I need to know the cost differential between the Callaway and the Srixon balls.
Logged Return to Top
JDerion
Vest & Plus Fours

Karma: 31
Posts: 785
Offline Offline


View ProfileIgnore this user
Re: This JUST happened. Options?
« Reply #2 on: April 06, 2009, 06:18:33 AM »

Before I can answer, I need to know the cost differential between the Callaway and the Srixon balls.
It was a Tour model Callaway, so they're around $45/doz. It was a Srixon Soft Feel, which are around $19.99. I see where you're going with this. They were sending Frank a message, "Maybe you should start using Soft Feel balls, a$shole."

Good thinking.
Logged Return to Top

Sigurdur Hjartarson is a douche bag
Uisce Beatha
Amazing Technicolor Dreamcoat
From: In the Jar

Karma: 116
Posts: 7357
Offline Offline

Get me the tank!

View ProfileIgnore this user
Re: This JUST happened. Options?
« Reply #3 on: April 06, 2009, 09:28:21 PM »

Hi JD,

So tough to determine the "virtual certainty" aspect of 18-1 if you're not there.  So many things come into it.  i.e.  Were they standing in the rough and was there a chance Frank's ball was sitting down and difficult/impossible to see?  Stuff like that. 

Usually in the rules when they say things like "virtually certain" or "reasonable evidence" they are effectively asking the question "is there a chance it went the other way?"  If the answer is no then you get the benefit of doubt.  If the answer is yes then you're out of luck. 

Good question regarding the possibility of gaining that certainty post round.  Perhaps this is relevant:

Quote
18-1/4  Spectator Says Ball Was Moved by Outside Agency But Player Not Sure

Q. A spectator tells a player that his ball has been moved by an outside agency. Neither the player nor his caddie was aware the ball had been moved. Is the player obliged to take the spectator’s word and replace the ball on the spot from which the spectator said it was moved?

A. No. In stroke play, if it is impractical to get a decision from the Committee, the player should, under Rule 3-3, hole out both with the original ball and a second ball played from the spot from which the original ball is alleged to have been moved, and request the Committee to decide the matter at the end of the round. In reaching a decision, the Committee should interrogate the spectator, if possible.

In match play, if there is no referee or representative of the Committee available within a reasonable time, the player and his opponent should, if possible, agree on the place from which the player should play his next stroke. If agreement cannot be reached, the player must proceed as he thinks best, and if the opponent does not agree with the action taken, he should lodge a claim under Rule 2-5 so that the Committee may make a decision under Rule 34-3.

While not 100% Frank's scenario it seems like there's some leeway. 

Fingers crossed for Frank's victim.  I witnessed the same thing a couple of years ago.  Dude was walking off the green and a guy playing with us hit a career 3-wood.  Nailed the dude in the head on the fly.  Dropped him like a bag of rocks.  Then his meth head son sprinted back down the fairway with intent to kill us all with, I suspect, nothing more than his pointy ribcage.  Tense moments.  The father recovered, drove the cart up to rescue us from Junior, gave us a glance, said "that wasn't cool" and drove off.  Understatement of the year.
Logged Return to Top

"If you're darker than a caramel, Reverend Al speaks for you." - Aasif Mandvi
"Well, you can tell by the way I use my walk, I'm a woman's man: no time to talk." - stroh
stroh
Sleeveless Hoodie
From: Impact Crater Springs, CA

Karma: 155
Posts: 16135
Offline Offline

We're doomed!

View ProfileIgnore this user
Re: This JUST happened. Options?
« Reply #4 on: April 07, 2009, 07:03:58 AM »

I have never hit a career 3 wood.
Logged Return to Top
Uisce Beatha
Amazing Technicolor Dreamcoat
From: In the Jar

Karma: 116
Posts: 7357
Offline Offline

Get me the tank!

View ProfileIgnore this user
Re: This JUST happened. Options?
« Reply #5 on: April 07, 2009, 07:27:34 AM »

Either one has or one will.

So in your case something to look forward to.
Logged Return to Top

"If you're darker than a caramel, Reverend Al speaks for you." - Aasif Mandvi
"Well, you can tell by the way I use my walk, I'm a woman's man: no time to talk." - stroh
Pages: [1]   Return to Top
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Related Posts
WVU_LOUISVILLE (SPOILERS)
Try:  MenuScroll down:  OptionsOptions:  Adult Entertainment, Spo
by stroh

kill him?
how did they determine that nothing happened?  [sm_bs]if nothing happened,
by MP

What happened to the Danica wankers?
Yeah, I don't know what happened.  We lost our badass top ranking.
by dystopia

The curse of Fuzzy: Germany-Turkey Euro 2008 semifinal
I was just going to ask what happened. I have no sound right now in the room and
by Spanky

 


 
  Powered by SMF | SMF © 2001-2009, Lewis Media

Dilber MC Theme by HarzeM