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Hitting A Range Ball During Play?

 
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stroh
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Hitting A Range Ball During Play?
« on: June 17, 2007, 08:59:37 AM »

The 9th fairway runs adjacent to the driving range.  Player, between shots of a ball in play, approaches and hits a range ball into the the driving range.  Continues to his ball in play, and finishes the hole.

Is it:

7-2 Practice?

15-3 Wrong Ball?

Neither?

Doesn't matter.  Penalty is the same.  2 strokes (s.p.), loss of hole (m.p.)
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Spanky
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Re: Hitting A Range Ball During Play?
« Reply #1 on: June 17, 2007, 09:37:26 AM »

I think if the player is just taking a whack at the ball with no real intentional swing, just to return the ball to the range, then there is no penalty. If the player sets up like a practice swing then 7-2.
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Uisce Beatha
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Re: Hitting A Range Ball During Play?
« Reply #2 on: June 17, 2007, 05:22:31 PM »

Not wrong ball no matter what as what you're doing doesn't fit the definition of a stroke.

7-2/5 says that "casual flicking" is allowed.  Be careful though. 
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stroh
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Re: Hitting A Range Ball During Play?
« Reply #3 on: June 17, 2007, 08:04:23 PM »

Not wrong ball no matter what as what you're doing doesn't fit the definition of a stroke.

7-2/5 says that "casual flicking" is allowed.  Be careful though. 

Very interesting.  I did not read that decision.

Well, that makes things all the more arbitrary.

Open to the interpretation of the person hitting the stroke/flick, or the competitor watching?
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stroh
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Re: Hitting A Range Ball During Play?
« Reply #4 on: June 17, 2007, 08:06:30 PM »

And Whisk-o-rama,.........why so quick to dismiss wrong ball? 

[Edit]  I argue your dismissal of "making a stroke"

 En Guard

 Grin
« Last Edit: June 17, 2007, 08:09:22 PM by stroh » Logged Return to Top
Uisce Beatha
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Re: Hitting A Range Ball During Play?
« Reply #5 on: June 17, 2007, 08:37:35 PM »

You might be right about the stroke.  I posted that in haste without thinking much about it.  However, if you know the ball is a wrong ball and the stroke you make is intended to plunk it back to the range, I believe you fall afoul of 7-2.  You're either casually flicking or practicing. There's no way to skip over 7-2 and get to 15-3.

Could be wrong.

[edit after a bit of research]

This is the decision I was thinking about.

Quote
18-2a/23 - Ball Knocked from Lip of Hole in Disgust

Q. In stroke play, a competitor’s ball stops on the lip of the hole. In disgust the competitor knocks his ball off the green with the back of his putter. What is the ruling?

A. The competitor must replace the ball under penalty of one stroke — Rule 18-2a. The competitor is not considered to have made a stroke.

If a right ball can be struck hit on purpose and not be considered a stroke then it seems, in equity, that a wrong ball must at the very least be substituted as the ball in play and intentionally played in accordance with 1-1 to be considered a 15-3 violation.  Failing that, either legal or a violation of 7-2. 

Not on solid ground here I know.  I'd like to hear some good arguments supporting a 15-3 violation given the scenario. 

Good fun.   Cheers
« Last Edit: June 17, 2007, 08:56:10 PM by Uisce Beatha » Logged Return to Top

"If you're darker than a caramel, Reverend Al speaks for you." - Aasif Mandvi
"Well, you can tell by the way I use my walk, I'm a woman's man: no time to talk." - stroh
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Re: Hitting A Range Ball During Play?
« Reply #6 on: June 18, 2007, 12:42:38 AM »

I believe the range ball would not be deemed a wrong ball because it quite obviously is not being "played".  We had a long discussion of this in a thread about the player from decision 18-2a/23 and whether his angry swat is considered a stroke.

If you're casually flicking the range balls back, you're fine.  If you're hitting them like golf shots (even little pitches), you're not fine.  Swinging one-handed, hitting them while walking -- that's flicking.
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stroh
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Re: Hitting A Range Ball During Play?
« Reply #7 on: June 18, 2007, 06:02:28 AM »

[Disclaimer:]I'm at work, so I will not be able to give the required "research" for a decent argument.

My initial thoughts on the range ball being "wrong" was their definition.

Quote
Wrong Ball
A “wrong ball’’ is any ball other than the player’s:

    • ball in play,
    • provisional ball, or
    • second ball played under Rule 3-3 or Rule 20-7c in stroke play;

And I suppose it is.  Doesn't seem to matter now, with decision 7-2/5.

Although my argument is one of disagreement between competitors on a stroke/practice vs. flicking.(I can see it happening.)

Would it not then circumvent the argument all together to call 15-3 as literal?  Even though all parties are certain that the offender did not truly mistake the range ball for his own.


Scenario:

Player is set to play the third into the par 5.  Distance of about 60 yards.  Range ball within 1 yard from his ball.  Player turns and hits the range ball about 60 yards, then addresses his ball and hits a 60 yard pitch shot.

Player B.  Says "Good thing you got to practice for it, *fudge*tard!"  Player A says "Eat me!  7-2/5, casual flicking back to the range to keep the course tidy!"  Player B says "I'm not calling practice, AnalEase.  15-3 wrong ball.  Nice snowman."
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Uisce Beatha
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Re: Hitting A Range Ball During Play?
« Reply #8 on: June 18, 2007, 07:19:14 AM »

Scenario:

Player is set to play the third into the par 5.  Distance of about 60 yards.  Range ball within 1 yard from his ball.  Player turns and hits the range ball about 60 yards, then addresses his ball and hits a 60 yard pitch shot.

Player B.  Says "Good thing you got to practice for it, *fudge*tard!"  Player A says "Eat me!  7-2/5, casual flicking back to the range to keep the course tidy!"  Player B says "I'm not calling practice, AnalEase.  15-3 wrong ball.  Nice snowman."

Hypotheticals make baby Atticus cry.   Wink

The thing about the rules is there's no "I'm calling..." aspect to them.  Violations occur or they do not.  Granted, that doesn't top player B from stomping his feet and so on.  In your scenario it seems pretty clear that player A practiced during the round.  Player B muddies the waters by bringing 15-3 into the discussion.  If, in fact, a 7-2 violation occured then a 15-3 violation did not occur.  If, in fact, a 7-2 violation did not occur then the cited decision comes into play.  The decision explicitly addresses the scenario and says there's no penalty. 

If the first 60 yard pitch was intentionally targeted at the hole it does perhaps change things.
« Last Edit: June 18, 2007, 07:23:27 AM by Uisce Beatha » Logged Return to Top

"If you're darker than a caramel, Reverend Al speaks for you." - Aasif Mandvi
"Well, you can tell by the way I use my walk, I'm a woman's man: no time to talk." - stroh
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Re: Hitting A Range Ball During Play?
« Reply #9 on: June 18, 2007, 10:07:54 AM »

In said scenario:

Player A turns and hits range ball 60 yards. Does he in fact aim at a target on the range or just swing? What if it was an acorn, does that change things?

If player A lines the ball up and aims at a specific target and hits the range ball then he should be penalized (what rule I am not sure and don't think it matters as the result is the same).

That said I bow to the experts that sit on the pot and read the RoG while passing the "time".  Wink
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Clive
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Re: Hitting A Range Ball During Play?
« Reply #10 on: June 18, 2007, 10:31:48 AM »

The "practice" stroke need not mirror the upcoming shot.  I'd say that if the player set up over the ball and took a golf swing, it's practice.  The fact that the practice ball shot was more or less the same as the upcoming stroke makes it all the harder to find otherwise.

Ultimately, though, the player himself should be the judge.  I believe that all tweeners should be resolved against the player (and that the honorable player should rule against himself unless absolutely certain that it couldn't be deemed practice, irrespective of whether he intended it as practice.)
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stroh
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Re: Hitting A Range Ball During Play?
« Reply #11 on: June 18, 2007, 02:48:09 PM »

I'm in a box.











*fudge*tards! Devil
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TFT
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Re: Hitting A Range Ball During Play?
« Reply #12 on: June 18, 2007, 06:23:28 PM »

I'm in a box.


Another *8==>* in a box reference.

This website, honestly.

 Tongue
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