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2 fascinating graphs i saw via fark... [Politics/Religion]

 
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Aske
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2 fascinating graphs i saw via fark... [Politics/Religion]
« on: January 17, 2008, 02:39:55 PM »






but really everyone,  go out and vote based on which party(ies) stand against gay teen marriages dissolving due to abortions or whatever other hotbutton social issue of personal moral outrage that represents truly meaningful *feces* in life.  via la corporación ! viva la  aristocracia !

« Last Edit: January 17, 2008, 02:46:32 PM by Aske » Logged Return to Top

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Russia has invaded a sovereign neighboring state and threatens a democratic government elected by its people. Such an action is unacceptable in the 21st century.
--  Chimpy McFlightsuit, CEO of Bu$hco Industries of 'Merka
hobbit
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Re: 2 fascinating graphs i saw via fark... [Politics/Religion]
« Reply #1 on: January 17, 2008, 03:13:16 PM »

When I looked at the first graph I immediately heard the "which one of these things is not like the other" song in my head.  'Productivity' is a red herring in this regard.  Its not because we're working harder - its automation, technology, etc. that accounts for the large increases.  All these things cost a lot of money - so to include and compare productivity increases to wages, but leave out the investments that led to a large part of it... a trifle misleading eh?

And CEO pay closely follows the market because they are so heavily compensated with stock options, so thats a big 'like, duh' graph.

Now, corporate profits compared to compensation - thats probably (without understanding the sources) a fair graph.  Where's our trickle down you say?  Doesn't seem to be there does it?  At least not very significant.  So, thats not great.  But tell me, what is the party of 'look at the bad, bad republicans' going to do about it?

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Spanky
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Re: 2 fascinating graphs i saw via fark... [Politics/Religion]
« Reply #2 on: January 17, 2008, 03:31:49 PM »

When I looked at the first graph I immediately heard the "which one of these things is not like the other" song in my head.  'Productivity' is a red herring in this regard.  Its not because we're working harder - its automation, technology, etc. that accounts for the large increases.  All these things cost a lot of money - so to include and compare productivity increases to wages, but leave out the investments that led to a large part of it... a trifle misleading eh?


I don't know about this. At my job in 2000 when I started we had 8 technicians per shift and probably 40 to 50 operators. (this is in my area only) Today we have 5 techs on days and 2 at night. Operators are down to 22 to 25. We have the same if not more tools, we are creating more product, and our yield is at a record high. Everyone is doing more work across the board.

So I see this at my work, does it surprise me, no. This is how Japan and China and the other major Asian companies do it (but I know they pay their workers a lot less). This is what we are being told to strive for. Is there some automation at my work? Yes, only to start the correct jobs on the tools but people still load them, fix them, run them, and check them. That hasn't changed. Same amount of work just less people.
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Uisce Beatha
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Re: 2 fascinating graphs i saw via fark... [Politics/Religion]
« Reply #3 on: January 17, 2008, 03:37:56 PM »

Shocked

Frodownd.

Just kiddin' boys.  Interesting discussion which I will follow without participation as I have no farkin' clue.  All I know is I only buy rum in bottles smaller than 1.5L if they're on sale.
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hobbit
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Re: 2 fascinating graphs i saw via fark... [Politics/Religion]
« Reply #4 on: January 17, 2008, 03:59:13 PM »

Shocked

Frodownd.

Well, If we're accepting anecdotal evidence, I can add plenty of my own  Devil Wink

But it was not a chart of one company - his, nor mine.

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Uisce Beatha
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Re: 2 fascinating graphs i saw via fark... [Politics/Religion]
« Reply #5 on: January 17, 2008, 04:03:17 PM »

Shocked

Frodownd.

Well, If we're accepting anecdotal evidence, I can add plenty of my own  Devil Wink

But it was not a chart of one company - his, nor mine.


LOL.  I wrote that after your post addressing aske's OP and Spanky butted in line. 

Just farkin' about anyhoo. 
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Re: 2 fascinating graphs i saw via fark... [Politics/Religion]
« Reply #6 on: January 17, 2008, 04:07:11 PM »

Shocked

Frodownd.

Well, If we're accepting anecdotal evidence, I can add plenty of my own  Devil Wink

But it was not a chart of one company - his, nor mine.


LOL.  I wrote that after your post addressing aske's OP and Spanky butted in line. 

Just farkin' about anyhoo. 


Don't let that bugger lean on ya just cus he's taller!  Spring an Irish attitude adjustment on em!  Cheesy

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Aske
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Re: 2 fascinating graphs i saw via fark... [Politics/Religion]
« Reply #7 on: January 17, 2008, 04:17:24 PM »

When I looked at the first graph I immediately heard the "which one of these things is not like the other" song in my head.  'Productivity' is a red herring in this regard.  Its not because we're working harder - its automation, technology, etc. that accounts for the large increases.  All these things cost a lot of money - so to include and compare productivity increases to wages, but leave out the investments that led to a large part of it... a trifle misleading eh?

And CEO pay closely follows the market because they are so heavily compensated with stock options, so thats a big 'like, duh' graph.

Now, corporate profits compared to compensation - thats probably (without understanding the sources) a fair graph.  Where's our trickle down you say?  Doesn't seem to be there does it?  At least not very significant.  So, thats not great.  But tell me, what is the party of 'look at the bad, bad republicans' going to do about it?



tricky hickses.   i dont think the 'dems can/will do anything either.  they're just as influenced by korprit lobbies.   my point was really we should vote for neither, or not even at all
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Quote
Russia has invaded a sovereign neighboring state and threatens a democratic government elected by its people. Such an action is unacceptable in the 21st century.
--  Chimpy McFlightsuit, CEO of Bu$hco Industries of 'Merka
hobbit
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Re: 2 fascinating graphs i saw via fark... [Politics/Religion]
« Reply #8 on: January 17, 2008, 04:25:47 PM »

When I looked at the first graph I immediately heard the "which one of these things is not like the other" song in my head.  'Productivity' is a red herring in this regard.  Its not because we're working harder - its automation, technology, etc. that accounts for the large increases.  All these things cost a lot of money - so to include and compare productivity increases to wages, but leave out the investments that led to a large part of it... a trifle misleading eh?

And CEO pay closely follows the market because they are so heavily compensated with stock options, so thats a big 'like, duh' graph.

Now, corporate profits compared to compensation - thats probably (without understanding the sources) a fair graph.  Where's our trickle down you say?  Doesn't seem to be there does it?  At least not very significant.  So, thats not great.  But tell me, what is the party of 'look at the bad, bad republicans' going to do about it?



tricky hickses.   i dont think the 'dems can/will do anything either.  they're just as influenced by korprit lobbies.   my point was really we should vote for neither, or not even at all



 Thumbs Up

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Spanky
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Re: 2 fascinating graphs i saw via fark... [Politics/Religion]
« Reply #9 on: January 17, 2008, 04:37:35 PM »

Shocked

Frodownd.

Well, If we're accepting anecdotal evidence, I can add plenty of my own  Devil Wink

But it was not a chart of one company - his, nor mine.


LOL.  I wrote that after your post addressing aske's OP and Spanky butted in line. 

Just farkin' about anyhoo. 


Don't let that bugger lean on ya just cus he's taller!  Spring an Irish attitude adjustment on em!  Cheesy


Don't know who you're calling taller, I may only have an inch on UB, about a foot on you though.

I was just making a personal observation based on what I see at my work. And I don't work at a small company unless you consider Texas Instruments small. They are doing other things that help grow profits and those do affect jobs (as in the number here in the US). While I don't completely disagree with you I would have to say I do have a close feel for at least one Korprit Merica.
« Last Edit: January 17, 2008, 05:35:41 PM by Spanky » Logged Return to Top
Aske
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Re: 2 fascinating graphs i saw via fark... [Politics/Religion]
« Reply #10 on: January 17, 2008, 05:33:27 PM »

actually, re-reading my last post, i was struck with a question that my memory of civics/gubmint/history etc   ... can't recall

what DOES happen if nobody votes in the national elections ?    the electors would get to choose the president still i guess,  incumbents in congress would retain?   what else?
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Russia has invaded a sovereign neighboring state and threatens a democratic government elected by its people. Such an action is unacceptable in the 21st century.
--  Chimpy McFlightsuit, CEO of Bu$hco Industries of 'Merka
Clive
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Re: 2 fascinating graphs i saw via fark... [Politics/Religion]
« Reply #11 on: January 17, 2008, 05:34:42 PM »

My company has essentially the SAME technology as in 2000.  We do much more work with fewer people than we had then.
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Re: 2 fascinating graphs i saw via fark... [Politics/Religion]
« Reply #12 on: January 17, 2008, 05:36:56 PM »

what DOES happen if nobody votes in the national elections ?    the electors would get to choose the president still i guess,  incumbents in congress would retain?   what else?
You'll always have at least one blind, party-devoted soul out there who'll pull a lever and spoil your shutout.

To my knowledge, there's no quorum-like requirement for federal elections.  Assuming you really could get NO ONE to vote, what is the tiebreaker?  Can't be any worse than the NFL wild-card crap.
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hobbit
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Re: 2 fascinating graphs i saw via fark... [Politics/Religion]
« Reply #13 on: January 17, 2008, 11:54:29 PM »

Well poo, its not about a few of us - its about ALL of us (looking at worker productivity nationwide).  I wanted to avoid it, but since we're having fun sharing stories....

(full disclosure - the first company I was involved in was prior to the time frame graphed above, but its certainly been repeated ad nauseum since)

Company 1:
Upgraded the software that controls the robotics on a manufacturing line.  This allowed the line to be programmed faster and easier, as well as changed from one profile to another much faster.  Productivity increased - engineering time decreased.  The few workers watching the line did have shorter down times between runs - if ya wanna call that working harder.

Implemented a new robot that handled the same jobs with greater accuracy at twice the pace.  Productivity more than doubled, number of employees working harder = 0.

Company 2:
Replaced an aging communications network with a new one that had more bandwidth, less downtime, and was more easily managed.  Branch productivity increased, support of the network decreased (people were actually working LESS).  Now again, we're reducing employee wait time - so they are serving more clients faster, but not working harder to do it.  Kinda like moving from dial-up to cable Internet - you can visit more sites faster, but its not really more work.

Company 3:
Much the same as above - replaced a satellite communications network with a terrestrial one for better response times and increased upload speeds.  This allowed more robust applications to be delivered - increasing branch productivity significantly.  Branch head count did not increase, nor did the headcount and workload to support this new network and applications.

System replacement and the resulting downtime and support hassles reached a tipping point for a very important office product.  We're currently selecting a product to replace all of them with a newer, more stable, and more functional model.  Again, another tens of millions of dollars investment that will increase productivity without any increased workload (it should actually decrease it).  And none of these dollars will be included in any wage comparison.


All of these were significant investments for the companies - none of which are reflected in wage comparisons.  And of course, all of these people 'feel' like they are working harder to get more done, while all that was done was to decrease wait time/downtime, or eliminate support headaches (wasted time).  We're working smarter, not harder.

At a micro level, simple things like process improvements increase productivity - even with the same technology.  When I first started my most recent job, the higher level engineers (me) were not allowed the time they needed to look into new things - they were helping put out fires.  I/we did two things - implemented standards for repeatable tasks, and provided better training to the analysts dealing with support issues.  This led to faster issue resolution and faster implementations with less involvement from the engineers - who are now free to look into new things and test new products.  Productivity increased, head count and workload did not.  And no 'new' tools were required.  Examples of similar micro accomplishments are numerous.



Undoubtedly there are people working harder, I'm not saying thats a lie - particularly in the 2000-2002 years, the bubble burst and some people were laid off.  Those that stayed had to pick up the slack, and willingly did so to keep their jobs.  I'm sure we even have people working harder because of increased workloads that their company has not kept pace with workforce-wise.  All of this is going on, just not at a significant enough rate to explain the sizable productivity gains.  It has been a generally accepted position for many years that our increasing productivity is due in large part to working smarter (automation, technology, etc.) and less so because we're working harder.  Especially if you ask your parents, who will probably always hold true that they worked harder than we do today  Wink

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Clive
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Re: 2 fascinating graphs i saw via fark... [Politics/Religion]
« Reply #14 on: January 18, 2008, 12:19:24 AM »

So if you're in the IT business or high-tech manufacturing, technology investments likely increased productivity more than just bumping up worker load.

If you're an office drone ... it doesn't matter how fast the computer gets, I can still only type 50-70 wpm and much of my work involves thinking, not loafing while technology works for me.  Retail, food and beverage, in fact most service-based businesses ... I don't see technology making worker-life easier.  To the contrary, I'd expect workers are burdened mastering new equipment and new skills, just to keep up, if the technology even deploys in some industries.
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