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Ok. Time Out. Let's Talk About This.

 
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stroh
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Ok. Time Out. Let's Talk About This.
« on: April 15, 2008, 09:29:18 AM »

Shafts.  The current AccuFlex thread got me thinking, and now it takes me back to Clive building some wedges for me, and polling the crowd on what shaft would be best for me.

I personally think Clive just like to take a little poll from time to time, be he insists he wanted to give me the shaft.

Here's the deal.  I didn't understand it then, and I don't understand it now.  This latest thread has me wondering.

I have several questions, and am not even sure how to articulate what I want, but here goes.

You guys really notice a difference in shafts?  And I'm speaking not only in shaft manufacturers, but with variations within a given line of shafts?  Come on!   BS 

Now, I'm not talking about a length of rebar versus the umbrella shaft out of an '81 Patty Berg Misses 5 wood.

I mean I get that.  And I guessing I'm pointing to 'fredos post.(not to beat on you, but you were pretty specific)

I couldn't tell you if my club had a Ping Cushin JZ Stiff versus a Sears Craftsman Radio antenna.  I just don't get the performance or feed back aspect, which I guess leads me to question 2.

Is that what you guys are saying?
Are you talking miss hits?  Ball Flight?

What if you just hit it *feces*ty?  Does the shaft suck, or do you?  "This shaft sucks, because the launch angle is way to low"   What if your just delofting the club too much?

Clubhead speed?  Face angle?

Or is it an assembly deal?


Seriously.  What's the deal?



« Last Edit: April 15, 2008, 09:46:02 AM by stroh » Logged Return to Top
spacey
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Re: Ok. Time Out. Let's Talk About This.
« Reply #1 on: April 15, 2008, 09:36:46 AM »

Depends.
Perhaps.
Not necessarily.
Sometimes.
That's likely.
Tough to say.
I probably am.
Definitely an issue.
Plays something of a role.
I don't think so.
That's a question better answered by someone else.
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stroh
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Re: Ok. Time Out. Let's Talk About This.
« Reply #2 on: April 15, 2008, 09:57:43 AM »

You deserve Utah's liquor laws.
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spacey
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Re: Ok. Time Out. Let's Talk About This.
« Reply #3 on: April 15, 2008, 09:58:21 AM »

You deserve Utah's liquor laws.
Uncalled for.  Sad
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Spanky
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Re: Ok. Time Out. Let's Talk About This.
« Reply #4 on: April 15, 2008, 10:10:40 AM »

For me the difference between shafts is more of a gross feel then something subtle. I can feel a difference in stiffness (if that's not an open invitation) and certain shaft profiles meaning the extreems. But most shafts feel the same. The biggest problem is it takes about 4 swings and your body gets used to the shaft. You have to know within the first couple of swings if the shaft feels right. If your swing is off that day then the shaft might not feel or perform right.

Quote
What if you just hit it *feces*ty?  Does the shaft suck, or do you?  "This shaft sucks, because the launch angle is way to low"   What if your just delofting the club too much?


This says it all. I am not good enough to know if the shaft is what sucks or is it me. I just take the first couple of hits and will know it either feels right or doesn't. If it does then great I can work with that. As far as too low or too high I wouldnt be able to tell if it was the shaft, the loft of the club, or in the case of a driver whether I teed the ball too high or low.

Iron shafts, to me steel feels like steel. I can't tell the diff between how they feel although the sensicore shafts do take some sting off mis*feces*s.
 
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stroh
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Re: Ok. Time Out. Let's Talk About This.
« Reply #5 on: April 15, 2008, 10:20:38 AM »

You deserve Utah's liquor laws.
Uncalled for.  Sad

LOL.  Sorry.
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Walfredo
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Re: Ok. Time Out. Let's Talk About This.
« Reply #6 on: April 15, 2008, 11:07:03 AM »

When I say a shaft in particular sucks it is purely subjective.  And I'm generally only talking about the way I perceive feel.  A certain shaft might just feel terrible in relation to my swing.  Makes me feel like I can't control it all. 

I can feel if a shaft has a low bendpoint and has a very active tip.  Try an Accra Tour driver shaft and you'll know that they feel different than most.  I can also feel a stiffer tip shaft like the UST V2 or vs339 or Evo.  I'll admit the difference in feel within those categories is pretty hard to distinguish.

I wanted to like the original evo for example I just couldn't hit it at all.  My good shots would go dead straight and long.  Either that or I'd snap hook it like crazy.  Now I know it is my swing closing the face at impact in relation to my path but I feel a shaft can magnify that at least in my mind.  The evo just plain doesn't work if you cast or flip your hands before impact.  And in my driver swing if I lose my timing I do that to try and save the shot.

And the acculaunch line in the 70 gram driver shaft felt lifeless.  It just seemed completely dead and didn't seem to load at all. 

I have confidence in a few driver shafts.  The ust V2 75, Rapport Blue Velvet and House of Forged whup-n-shaft.  They are all mid/high bend point to med-high tip stiffness and feel very similar to me.  Enough so I can't tell the difference other than they are on different driver heads that have their own feel.  I feel this type of shaft works for me and my swing.  They take my bad swings in a better manner and keep them playable.  I can hit bad shots with them of course but they just seem to be most consistent overall for me.

In the end though I dread snap hooks.  If I hit a lot of them with a certain combination it is dead to me.  I snap hooked the hell out the evo.  I hardly ever do it with my three current drivers.  I don't know if it has anything at all to do with the shaft but I feel it does and I think it does in my head on the tee box.  So that is all that matters in the end.  Maybe it is typical golf forum bs, I have absorbed a lot of it. 
ymmv
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Clive
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Re: Ok. Time Out. Let's Talk About This.
« Reply #7 on: April 15, 2008, 11:44:01 AM »

With my fervent hope that y'all can unplug the innuend-o-meter ...

You don't have to be a good golfer to be able to discern differences in golf shaft performance.  Exhibit A = Clive, a 20-something handicap from North Carolina.  Clive isn't some shaft savant who can waggle a club and tell you the shaft make, model, year of manufacture, and insouciance of that season's resin.  But Clive CAN tell the difference between butt-stiff/tip-soft and butt-soft/tip-stiff shafts.  Clive most definitely can feel the difference -- and also see the difference in results -- between a 60-something gram shaft and an 80-something gram shaft in his driver, or between 90g and 125g iron shafts.  Clive can tell a Dynamic Gold from a Rifle, even when they frequency the same.  (Oddly, Clive has trouble feeling any benefit from Sensicore.)

More importantly, it's not always about what the golfer can FEEL.  If the shaft performance isn't right for the golfer's swing, the two can't work in harmony.  Shots go too high, too low, too easily hooked, too much dispersion, the player loses touch with the club in the swing and similarly loses confidence, ...  Not on the gross scale, but every little bit helps.  Otherwise, why bother fitting the player at all?
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stroh
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Re: Ok. Time Out. Let's Talk About This.
« Reply #8 on: April 15, 2008, 12:59:35 PM »

Ok.  Thanks for the responses.  I'm starting to see some of it. I'm still having a hard time buying it.

Tiger Woods and your sister need different shafts in their clubs.  Like I said, I get that.  I see the importance of fitting.      To a point.


Perhaps if I hit balls with someone like you guys, and hit several different shafts like Clive described I could see it.

To be honest, I have no idea what shafts I have in my clubs, and have always blamed poor shots, or at least poor results versus expectation to a *feces*ty swing or lack of execution.

Perhaps it's time I start placing the blame on the shaft.
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Clive
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Re: Ok. Time Out. Let's Talk About This.
« Reply #9 on: April 15, 2008, 01:28:54 PM »

When the ball doesn't go where/how it was supposed to, I was at fault.

That said, though, each person applies his own physics to the golf shaft.  Even poor golfers (read: Clive) have surprisingly consistent swings on the whole.  Some guys load the shaft heavily, some build load through the swing.  Release might be spread out over more of the downswing for one player, and bunched up in a relatively small portion before impact for the next.  One player might cast, another has Hoganesque lag.  One may have the transition of Ernie Els, the other that of Jim Thorpe.

I think shafts (assuming same flex) have a narrower performance spectrum than golf balls, but there is still SOME difference.  And the player/fitter should capitalize on that, just as would be done with golf ball choice.
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Uisce Beatha
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Re: Ok. Time Out. Let's Talk About This.
« Reply #10 on: April 15, 2008, 06:26:11 PM »

I think it tends to get way too much play amongst the rank and file.  Good golfers can probably feel a lot more than the rest of us.  I couldn't tell you this, that and the other thing about any particular shaft.  I do know that I like the old YS-7s and I don't like the new model.  I don't know why beyond I hit one well and the other not so much.  Could be differences in the shaft; could be in my head.
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twoiron
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Re: Ok. Time Out. Let's Talk About This.
« Reply #11 on: April 15, 2008, 07:58:16 PM »

With my fervent hope that y'all can unplug the innuend-o-meter ...

You don't have to be a good golfer to be able to discern differences in golf shaft performance.  Exhibit A = Clive, a 20-something handicap from North Carolina.  Clive isn't some shaft savant who can waggle a club and tell you the shaft make, model, year of manufacture, and insouciance of that season's resin.  But Clive CAN tell the difference between butt-stiff/tip-soft and butt-soft/tip-stiff shafts.  Clive most definitely can feel the difference -- and also see the difference in results -- between a 60-something gram shaft and an 80-something gram shaft in his driver, or between 90g and 125g iron shafts.  Clive can tell a Dynamic Gold from a Rifle, even when they frequency the same.  (Oddly, Clive has trouble feeling any benefit from Sensicore.)

More importantly, it's not always about what the golfer can FEEL.  If the shaft performance isn't right for the golfer's swing, the two can't work in harmony.  Shots go too high, too low, too easily hooked, too much dispersion, the player loses touch with the club in the swing and similarly loses confidence, ...  Not on the gross scale, but every little bit helps.  Otherwise, why bother fitting the player at all?

Not that I've paid much attention, but do you often refer to yourself in the 'third person'?
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Re: Ok. Time Out. Let's Talk About This.
« Reply #12 on: May 19, 2008, 05:08:43 PM »

I can tell the diff  Grin
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Uisce Beatha
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Re: Ok. Time Out. Let's Talk About This.
« Reply #13 on: May 19, 2008, 06:22:51 PM »

I can tell the diff  Grin

Shill.
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Seamus
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Re: Ok. Time Out. Let's Talk About This.
« Reply #14 on: May 19, 2008, 06:58:05 PM »

I got nothing for ya.

And yet I payed good dinero to have the shafts in my woods acoustically frequency splined blah blah blah whatever the heck it's called.

latest bandwagon---me---jump on.

 Undecided
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