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[Politics/Religion] On the Eve

 
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hobbit
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[Politics/Religion] On the Eve
« on: November 03, 2008, 10:24:18 PM »

I hope everyone gets to the polls and votes, apathy is a terrible thing.

As for me, I'm once again pezzed about my choices.  Probably end up voting Libertarian again even though I can't support the entire platform.  Free choice, free markets, etc.; without the war mongering and religious overtones is about as close as any gets for me.

It is the economy stupid.  Problem is - presidents have such limited influence over it, it simply makes me laugh when people credit or blame economic performance on the Executive.  No matter the winner the economy will recover, but something tells me the winning party will take/get credit for the natural phenomenon.  That is not to say tax policy and the like do not have an effect - the rate and heights of the recovery can be influenced, but the recovery will happen either way.

I like to promote business, thats no secret.  While I can appreciate Obama's calls for a tax increase on the affluent, I cannot disregard the assault on business that his rhetoric makes.  One persons loophole is anothers justified savior.  Just calling something a loophole does not make it wrong or bad.  Heck, credits for dependents sure look like a loophole to those without children.  As does mortgage interest to those without homes.  Of course, most of us do not argue the validity of those loopholes.  But for some reason, when it comes to business... all tax incentives are considered loopholes to be slandered and railed against.

And the class warfare being conducted... tax the rich, give it to the poor... (we do this already, but we apparently need more of it  Roll Eyes) is simply vote buying.  Its pandering that is no better than the fear-based pandering of the McCain campaign.  Its even more insidious in that its easy to pezz off 5% of the country, promise money to the other 95%, and gain the votes to win an election.  But mob rule isn't always right - its why we're not a pure democracy.

And that McCain campaign... no good either.  Ideas are lacking and personnel decisions have been poor.  Palin was a WTF moment for me.  Not that Biden has the right stuff, but at least Obama didn't completely screw the pooch the way McCain did.  But enough about all of that.  It looks like Obama has the advantage, and I'm ok with that.  Not moving to Canada or anything if he wins; like those few noble, smart, responsible and dedicated actors... that ended up not moving last time  Wink


Anyway - glad its almost over.  Perhaps this site will become interesting again.

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MFAWG
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Re: [Politics/Religion] On the Eve
« Reply #1 on: November 03, 2008, 10:35:12 PM »

Quote
And the class warfare being conducted

LOL, never let it be forgotten who fired the first shot.

2500 bucks this deal is costing me, right to the Wall Street Libertarians who worshipped at Greenspans feet for the better part of 3 decades. Some folks need to get over the misconception that Gubment money is somebody else's money. It's OUR money.

The vote buy was perfected in 2004 and 2008, and it was perfected by you-know-who.
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The things that will destroy America are prosperity at any price, peace at any price, safety first instead of duty first, the love of soft living and the get rich quick theory of life. -- Teddy Roosevelt
gleek
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Re: [Politics/Religion] On the Eve
« Reply #2 on: November 03, 2008, 10:44:51 PM »

Quote
And the class warfare being conducted

LOL, never let it be forgotten who fired the first shot.

2500 bucks this deal is costing me, right to the Wall Street Libertarians who worshipped at Greenspans feet for the better part of 3 decades. Some folks need to get over the misconception that Gubment money is somebody else's money. It's OUR money.

The vote buy was perfected in 2004 and 2008, and it was perfected by you-know-who.

The US military industrial complex--the biggest socialist program the world has ever seen--but it's our socialist program.
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hobbit
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Re: [Politics/Religion] On the Eve
« Reply #3 on: November 03, 2008, 11:00:52 PM »

OMG

No wonder several found this place uninteresting the last month or so.

Carry on.  It will soon be just a site for you.

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MFAWG
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Re: [Politics/Religion] On the Eve
« Reply #4 on: November 04, 2008, 06:51:37 AM »

OMG

No wonder several found this place uninteresting the last month or so.

Carry on.  It will soon be just a site for you.



I'm guessing your definition of class warfare only goes one way.

I don't know what else you call it when failed businesses get bailed out to 'Reliquidate', and then sit on the money to pay bonuses.

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The things that will destroy America are prosperity at any price, peace at any price, safety first instead of duty first, the love of soft living and the get rich quick theory of life. -- Teddy Roosevelt
Fuzzy
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Re: [Politics/Religion] On the Eve
« Reply #5 on: November 04, 2008, 07:26:16 AM »

OMG

No wonder several found this place uninteresting the last month or so.

Carry on.  It will soon be just a site for you.



I read your post and predicted the responses in my head before I read them.  Sad

I liked your post but you forgot the golden rule around here. Democrats are pure goodness and can be blamed for nothing. Republicans are pure evil and are to be blamed for everything that was/is/will be bad.  Smiley
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Aske
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Re: [Politics/Religion] On the Eve
« Reply #6 on: November 04, 2008, 07:43:21 AM »

OMG

No wonder several found this place uninteresting the last month or so.

Carry on.  It will soon be just a site for you.



I read your post and predicted the responses in my head before I read them.  Sad

I liked your post but you forgot the golden rule around here. Democrats are pure goodness and can be blamed for nothing. Republicans are pure evil and are to be blamed for everything that was/is/will be bad.  Smiley

for the major positions of power, with the people the parties DO trot out there... yeh, sadly it basically does come down to this.  politics has sucked as long as I can remember, but it REALLY sucks with the modern NEOCON republican party.   

Choices (IMHO) tax and spend and more modern views on life vs. borrow and spend and antiquated views on life
Why can't I have tax as needed, spend less, domestic issues 1st and foremost, and modern view on life candidate who isn't an unelectable kook?
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birdymaker
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Re: [Politics/Religion] On the Eve
« Reply #7 on: November 04, 2008, 07:52:36 AM »


Why can't I have tax as needed, spend less, domestic issues 1st and foremost, and modern view on life candidate who isn't an unelectable kook?


omg lol. and then you woke up.  Sad
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stroh
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Re: [Politics/Religion] On the Eve
« Reply #8 on: November 04, 2008, 08:14:16 AM »

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Blader
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Re: [Politics/Religion] On the Eve
« Reply #9 on: November 04, 2008, 09:51:31 AM »

Thanks for not moving to Canada, Hobbit!!!!!

I've got more plans to chautauqua to StL than to Canada, so there is a better chance we can play that long awaited grudge match if you stay on "our team".

Besides, they talk real funny up there. 
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spacey
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Re: [Politics/Religion] On the Eve
« Reply #10 on: November 04, 2008, 02:00:48 PM »

I have no real interest in getting into a partisan pissing contest. I believe neither candidate, party, ideology, or philosophy has a monopoly in truth, righteousness, or the American way. While I do favor one candidate over the other, I don't convince myself that his victory or defeat will or will not seal the potential for future success of our country.

Whoever is the eventual winner today, I will paraphrase John Wayne (I think) and say regardless of whether he's the candidate I supported, he's our president, and I hope he does a good job. Petty partisanship stands to continue to do much more damage to the country than the current or future occupant of the Oval Office. One thing I've learned by being married is that being right is not the same thing as doing the right thing. People have become so obsessed with being right, they fail to consider whether they're doing the right thing.

That being said- if you haven't yet voted, VOTE. I don't care who you plan on voting for, exercise your right and your obligation as an American. Feeling disenfranchised is a pretty *feces*ty reason to sacrifice your rights.

(Jules and twoiron are naturally excluded from this message, as I believe their government officials are still chosen through knife fights and drinking contests.)
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Spanky
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Re: [Politics/Religion] On the Eve
« Reply #11 on: November 04, 2008, 02:10:42 PM »

*fudge* you spacey, I voted already.

Other then that I agree with you.

On a different note you look good with blue eye shadow.
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spacey
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Re: [Politics/Religion] On the Eve
« Reply #12 on: November 04, 2008, 02:23:06 PM »

On a different note you look good with blue eye shadow.

Don't think I don't know how good I make this look.
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stroh
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Re: [Politics/Religion] On the Eve
« Reply #13 on: November 04, 2008, 02:31:42 PM »

I have no real interest in getting into a partisan pissing contest. I believe neither candidate, party, ideology, or philosophy has a monopoly in truth, righteousness, or the American way. While I do favor one candidate over the other, I don't convince myself that his victory or defeat will or will not seal the potential for future success of our country.

Whoever is the eventual winner today, I will paraphrase John Wayne (I think) and say regardless of whether he's the candidate I supported, he's our president, and I hope he does a good job. Petty partisanship stands to continue to do much more damage to the country than the current or future occupant of the Oval Office. One thing I've learned by being married is that being right is not the same thing as doing the right thing. People have become so obsessed with being right, they fail to consider whether they're doing the right thing.

That being said- if you haven't yet voted, VOTE. I don't care who you plan on voting for, exercise your right and your obligation as an American. Feeling disenfranchised is a pretty *feces*ty reason to sacrifice your rights.

(Jules and twoiron are naturally excluded from this message, as I believe their government officials are still chosen through knife fights and drinking contests.)

Well said. 

I voted today for the first time in my life.  I have members of this forum to thank for giving me the insight, the interest, the education, and the passion to do what many take for granted, and many others yearn for.
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twoiron
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Re: [Politics/Religion] On the Eve
« Reply #14 on: November 04, 2008, 02:58:54 PM »

I have no real interest in getting into a partisan pissing contest. I believe neither candidate, party, ideology, or philosophy has a monopoly in truth, righteousness, or the American way. While I do favor one candidate over the other, I don't convince myself that his victory or defeat will or will not seal the potential for future success of our country.

Whoever is the eventual winner today, I will paraphrase John Wayne (I think) and say regardless of whether he's the candidate I supported, he's our president, and I hope he does a good job. Petty partisanship stands to continue to do much more damage to the country than the current or future occupant of the Oval Office. One thing I've learned by being married is that being right is not the same thing as doing the right thing. People have become so obsessed with being right, they fail to consider whether they're doing the right thing.

That being said- if you haven't yet voted, VOTE. I don't care who you plan on voting for, exercise your right and your obligation as an American. Feeling disenfranchised is a pretty *feces*ty reason to sacrifice your rights.

(Jules and twoiron are naturally excluded from this message, as I believe their government officials are still chosen through knife fights and drinking contests.)

Well said. 

I voted today for the first time in my life.  I have members of this forum to thank for giving me the insight, the interest, the education, and the passion to do what many take for granted, and many others yearn for.

Because voting is compulsory here, I've been voting for 20 years.

I look forward to voting because while I'm lining up I can buy a sausage in a bread roll and a can of coke Grin

Naturally the outcome of the above knife fights and drinking contests influence how I vote. If a potential Prime Minister can chug a Yard Glass of beer in under a minute he gets my vote
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"Nothing says sorry like a warm plate of bacon... or so I'm told"
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