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re: The auto bailout [Potentially NSFW]

 
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spacey
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re: The auto bailout [Potentially NSFW]
« on: December 10, 2008, 09:21:09 AM »

I'd laugh if I didn't find the whole thing so disgusting.


* youwouldntbuyour.jpg (79.95 KB, 500x691 - viewed 57 times.)
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stroh
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Re: re: The auto bailout [Potentially NSFW]
« Reply #1 on: December 10, 2008, 09:35:16 AM »

LMAO while also being outraged and incensed. 
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Blader
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Re: re: The auto bailout [Potentially NSFW]
« Reply #2 on: December 10, 2008, 09:38:00 AM »

Nobody is buying *feces*ty cars made by *feces*ty companies from japan or germany or sweden, either.  Most certainly not *feces*ty italian cars.  In fact, nobody anywhere is buying any *feces*ty cars from anybody.  Nor are they buying *feces*ty food to fill their *feces*ty bellies, or *feces*ty energy to warm their *feces*ty homes that are about to be foreclosed on by their *feces*ty banks because they lost their *feces*ty jobs.

I mean, these are pretty *feces*ty times.



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MFAWG
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Re: re: The auto bailout [Potentially NSFW]
« Reply #3 on: December 10, 2008, 07:50:36 PM »

Agree that it's nauseating on ALL levels.

This guy rolls into Washington on a Friday afternoon at 4:30 and Paulson and Bernanke hand him 30 billion dollars (that's with a B) after handing him I don't even remember how much 3 months ago:



They didn't even really ask what he was going to do with it, as far as I can tell.

Meanwhile, these fine folks stuck a gun in Treasuries face and said, 'If we go, we're taking everybody with us, and by the way a fair amount of that 85 billion (that's with a B) you gave us went to pay our bar tabs in Phoenix and our houses in the Hamptons.'



Treasury of course gave it right up.

Finally, the Big Three come along and say 'Look, we need a little cash to tide us over, and FWIW we have 3 million employees that all make less than your average stockbroker as well as another 10 million industry dependent jobs that could be on the line.

What's Congress do? Gives them half, and tells them to get the union under control.

Sickening all the way around, indeed.
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gleek
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Re: re: The auto bailout [Potentially NSFW]
« Reply #4 on: December 10, 2008, 10:14:17 PM »

You just know that somewhere down the line that somebody's going to get busted for corruption. It's virtually impossible for that kind of cashish to exchange hands without having some palms greased.
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birdymaker
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Re: re: The auto bailout [Potentially NSFW]
« Reply #5 on: December 11, 2008, 03:13:59 AM »

Nobody is buying *feces*ty cars made by *feces*ty companies from japan or germany or sweden, either.  Most certainly not *feces*ty italian cars.  In fact, nobody anywhere is buying any *feces*ty cars from anybody.  Nor are they buying *feces*ty food to fill their *feces*ty bellies, or *feces*ty energy to warm their *feces*ty homes that are about to be foreclosed on by their *feces*ty banks because they lost their *feces*ty jobs.

I mean, these are pretty *feces*ty times.

Amen Brother!

this has nothing to do with the quality of anyone's products. gm still sells more cars than Toyota. that means Toyota must really suck using the prevalent logic. this is about expenses plain and simple. gm has over 300,000 U S retirees on the books, Toyota has 275. switch those numbers and tell me who's in trouble. 30 and out and the health care industry have conspired to kill the U S auto industry.
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Blader
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Re: re: The auto bailout [Potentially NSFW]
« Reply #6 on: December 11, 2008, 06:23:36 AM »

All I'm saying is that the merits of the case are secondary.  In other words, now is not the time to allow a major US manufacturing industry to go under. 

Any taxpayer who thinks that they'd be better off if the big three were allowed to completely fail sometime during the next 5 or 6 quarters is smoking a drug I'd very much like to get my hands on.  For its medicinal properties.  I swear.

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spacey
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Re: re: The auto bailout [Potentially NSFW]
« Reply #7 on: December 11, 2008, 08:52:14 AM »

I'm not necessarily claiming it would be a good thing for the US auto industry to go belly up, and yes I realize that it's not an issue of total sales volumes. It's overly simplistic, I get that. But what I also get is that the Big 3 have been headed down this path for decades. The current economical situation has simply hastened the inevitable. You can blame the UAW, you can blame poor management, you can blame executive salaries and golden parachutes, you can blame shifting market segments, you can blame whatever. But whoever or whatever is to blame doesn't change the fact that the Big 3 ought to have seen this coming, and have had decades to do something about it. Does the current bailout proposal necessarily change their course or does it just prolong the situation? It remains to be seen, I suppose.

I'm pragmatic about it. The taxpayer will be shouldering the burden for this either way, either in the form of a "bailout" or in the form of increased expenditures to welfare, medicaid, etc. It's a matter of determining which ultimately places less burden on the American people at large.

It's fair to question, by the way, why the financial institutions get essentially a blank check and zero real accountability and the auto industry doesn't. But I don't think the intelligent argument is "AIG got everything they asked for, so should the auto industry." Rather one should question why the financial institutions aren't being put under the same spotlight as the auto industry and being held to any sort of standard for reform?
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stroh
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Re: re: The auto bailout [Potentially NSFW]
« Reply #8 on: December 11, 2008, 09:06:17 AM »

That's just not common sensical.
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Clive
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Re: re: The auto bailout [Potentially NSFW]
« Reply #9 on: December 11, 2008, 10:58:49 AM »

this is about expenses plain and simple. gm has over 300,000 U S retirees on the books, Toyota has 275. switch those numbers and tell me who's in trouble. 30 and out and the health care industry have conspired to kill the U S auto industry.
Why are other venerable US companies also not in trouble for the same reasons (high number of retirees, high cost of health insurance)?  Do you think the healthcare plans for retirees of IBM, for example, were that much less generous?
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MFAWG
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Re: re: The auto bailout [Potentially NSFW]
« Reply #10 on: December 11, 2008, 11:31:04 AM »

The awesomeness of watching the Senators from Honda and Toyota put the kibosh on this is hard to fathom.

'All politics is local, and anything that benefits the major competition of your states largest employer is as local as it gets'.

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The things that will destroy America are prosperity at any price, peace at any price, safety first instead of duty first, the love of soft living and the get rich quick theory of life. -- Teddy Roosevelt
birdymaker
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Re: re: The auto bailout [Potentially NSFW]
« Reply #11 on: December 11, 2008, 03:16:56 PM »

this is about expenses plain and simple. gm has over 300,000 U S retirees on the books, Toyota has 275. switch those numbers and tell me who's in trouble. 30 and out and the health care industry have conspired to kill the U S auto industry.
Why are other venerable US companies also not in trouble for the same reasons (high number of retirees, high cost of health insurance)?  Do you think the healthcare plans for retirees of IBM, for example, were that much less generous?

ibm retirees contribute 450.00 a month towards their health care insurance and it continually goes up. an hourly gm retiree contributes 0.00.  no one has the number of young retirees that the auto companies have. i have 3 brothers that all retired at 50 or less from GM. my dad retired at 55 and has now been retired from Gm for 32 years.
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Re: re: The auto bailout [Potentially NSFW]
« Reply #12 on: December 11, 2008, 03:26:20 PM »

i have 3 brothers that all retired at 50 or less from GM. my dad retired at 55 and has now been retired from Gm for 32 years.
HATE!
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Aske
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Re: re: The auto bailout [Potentially NSFW]
« Reply #13 on: December 11, 2008, 04:44:51 PM »

Look at it this way, if you never retire, at least you'll never be bored enough to watch daytime soaps.
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hobbit
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Re: re: The auto bailout [Potentially NSFW]
« Reply #14 on: December 11, 2008, 05:19:59 PM »

Resident chit disturber reporting for duty!



Bailouts - no one likes em.  I had mixed feelings about the financial industry aid - something needed to be done to prevent bank runs that may have led to a worse recession, or even depression.  The aid could have easily been half what it was announced to be though.  So, I didn't really like it - but was not so pissed I let it affect my blood pressure or sleeping habits.  Something was needed.

Why did the financial industry get 'special' treatment while the auto industry is scrutinized?  First, the financial industry affects everyone - every single person or business that uses or needs money; the auto industry is a single manufacturing segment.  Second, as has been pointed out - the auto industry was failing before this recession, will 'aid' help them survive or just delay the inevitable?


Golden parachutes.  Sure, its easy to see how ludicrous they are and get all huffy over it.  But, they really are not a significant portion of the problem pie here.  They elicit the emotional outburst, so they will be reported to death, repeatedly - but eliminating them fixes nothing but our emotions.  I have no problem limiting such crazy bonuses, but I don't believe it should be in the top 5 things we are looking to do right now - perhaps not even the top 10.  Prioritize on things that make a difference.

Oh, and guys that get to retire at 50 and pay $0 for health benefits - should think twice before scolding someone's golden parachute... while floating comfortably on their own silver parachute  Devil Wink

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