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[Politics/Religion] Paging Hannity...

 
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Aske
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[Politics/Religion] Paging Hannity...
« on: May 22, 2009, 06:44:12 PM »

http://www.huffingtonpost...arded-video_n_206906.html

Man up, sissy.
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Uisce Beatha
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Re: [Politics/Religion] Paging Hannity...
« Reply #1 on: May 22, 2009, 06:51:24 PM »

It's crazy how much government sanctioned torture goes on...

i.e.  http://www.fairchild.af.m....asp?fsID=3771&page=1
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Re: [Politics/Religion] Paging Hannity...
« Reply #2 on: May 22, 2009, 07:03:27 PM »

It's crazy how much government sanctioned torture goes on...

i.e.  http://www.fairchild.af.m....asp?fsID=3771&page=1

You can't be *goshdarn* serious.
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Re: [Politics/Religion] Paging Hannity...
« Reply #3 on: May 22, 2009, 10:33:40 PM »

As a heart attack.  Tens of thousands of American servicemen have gone through SERE and every last one of them has been subjected to harsher treatment than 99.9% of the prisoners poor, innocent victims of the evil Bush regime.  If you happen upon a graduate in your circle ask for a few details. 

"But they volunteered!!!" cry the apologists.  Well, so did the bad guys.

But then I'm not big on coddling terrorists.  *fudge* 'em I say.  If they want to attack our country they're going to get their just deserts.  Everyone wants to apologize for how terrible our military is treating our enemies.  Feel free to not apologize for me and all the other "wingnuts".

I know my opinion is not the flavor of the month so go ahead and pile on.   Mob

[Thus pigeonholed as having the IQ of a PopTart for not towing the libtard line, Uisce links off to his compound in Idaho or maybe just to church along with all the other morons.]
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MFAWG
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Re: [Politics/Religion] Paging Hannity...
« Reply #4 on: May 23, 2009, 08:17:54 AM »

Let's see what former Navy Seal and SERE graduate Jesse Ventura has to say about this:



Still as great on the stick as he ever was!
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gleek
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Re: [Politics/Religion] Paging Hannity...
« Reply #5 on: May 23, 2009, 08:42:07 AM »

"But they volunteered!!!" cry the apologists.  Well, so did the bad guys.

Isn't part of volunteering that you can also QUIT whenever you want to? Are SERE "participants" tortured against their will? Are they not taught techniques on how to endure said torture? AND are they not afforded the "privilege" of stopping any torture simulation whenever they want it stopped? This "privilege" is what Mancow Muller and Christopher Hitchens had, and it's the same privilege that blowhard Hannity will have if he ever develops the backbone to experience the simulation himself.
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Re: [Politics/Religion] Paging Hannity...
« Reply #6 on: May 23, 2009, 09:56:21 AM »

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But then I'm not big on coddling terrorists.  *fudge* 'em I say.  If they want to attack our country they're going to get their just deserts.

This statement appears to show a fundamental misunderstanding of just what it is that we're talking about.

Torture wasn't being used as a punishment, it was being used in an attempt to gain information.

Historically, it's been used to get information that conforms to a preexisting conclusion that's already been drawn by the torturer.

There isn't any reason to believe that isn't the case here, either.

That leads to:

Quote
Everyone wants to apologize for how terrible our military is treating our enemies.

Pretty sure it was the military loving Bush Administration that presided over the trial of service members accused of 'Mistreating' prisoners. It also becomes clearer that these military members thought they were behaving in an appropriate manner, and were actually following a protocol designed and implemented by the CIA and other intelligence services.

Why did ShrubCo throw them under the bus? is a real question that needs answered.

 
Edited lest I be accused of being a mean old librul beating up on Real 'Merkans 'cause I'm an *bunghole*.
« Last Edit: May 23, 2009, 10:08:02 AM by MFAWG » Logged Return to Top

The things that will destroy America are prosperity at any price, peace at any price, safety first instead of duty first, the love of soft living and the get rich quick theory of life. -- Teddy Roosevelt
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Re: [Politics/Religion] Paging Hannity...
« Reply #7 on: May 23, 2009, 03:41:35 PM »

What's fundamental is that disagreeing with the left earns you a label. 

I'm very much a middle of the road guy politically.  I think the Bush Administration was fairly useless.  I think Obama at least has the potential to do some good but I stop short of declaring him The Great Black Hope.  I'm a greenie but not militant about it.  I'm a fiscal conservative (which as you know does not equate to Republican.)  I think helping others is a good thing but I think I am better at it than the federal government.  Reduce my tax burden and I promise I'll accomplish good things with some of it and I'll keep a sharp eye on administration costs.  I think war is a bad thing but sometimes necessary.  I think Sean Hannity is a gob*feces*e just like Bill Maher and Al Franken.  How would it be if any of them could find a moderate position once in a while?  We'll never know.

So on and so forth. 

So I have no problem with the idea of torturing those bollocks whether it be for intel purposes or punishment.  Am I concerned about the process of determining WHO should be tortured?  Absolutely.  I'm not happy about the blinder they pulled on us there.  But torturing bona fide terrorists?  Green light all the way. 

I'm probably just fundamentally misunderstanding things.  How could it be otherwise?  Liberal = intellectual superman.  Other than = dumbass.  Isn't that how it's played these days?  Obviously the conservative talking heads earn a lot, maybe even all, of the *feces* that flies their way.  I don't think all of us who refuse to adhere to the lefty group think deserve the condescension thrown our way.

[And as much as I disagree with you on many of these things MFAWG I definitely recognize you as one who often does call a spade a spade even if it flies in the face of the standard liberal position.  I think we can disagree on this without your first sentence questioning my intelligence (the rest of your post is thoughtful and although I disagree with your conclusion on line #4 I have no problem with anything you say.)  Those digs are what bug people like me about some on the left.  I wish they'd a position without calling every conservative/Christian names.]
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Re: [Politics/Religion] Paging Hannity...
« Reply #8 on: May 23, 2009, 04:01:53 PM »

 Thumbs Up



What's fundamental is that disagreeing with the left earns you a label. 

I'm very much a middle of the road guy politically.  I think the Bush Administration was fairly useless.  I think Obama at least has the potential to do some good but I stop short of declaring him The Great Black Hope.  I'm a greenie but not militant about it.  I'm a fiscal conservative (which as you know does not equate to Republican.)  I think helping others is a good thing but I think I am better at it than the federal government.  Reduce my tax burden and I promise I'll accomplish good things with some of it and I'll keep a sharp eye on administration costs.  I think war is a bad thing but sometimes necessary.  I think Sean Hannity is a gob*feces*e just like Bill Maher and Al Franken.  How would it be if any of them could find a moderate position once in a while?  We'll never know.

So on and so forth. 

So I have no problem with the idea of torturing those bollocks whether it be for intel purposes or punishment.  Am I concerned about the process of determining WHO should be tortured?  Absolutely.  I'm not happy about the blinder they pulled on us there.  But torturing bona fide terrorists?  Green light all the way. 

I'm probably just fundamentally misunderstanding things.  How could it be otherwise?  Liberal = intellectual superman.  Other than = dumbass.  Isn't that how it's played these days?  Obviously the conservative talking heads earn a lot, maybe even all, of the *feces* that flies their way.  I don't think all of us who refuse to adhere to the lefty group think deserve the condescension thrown our way.

[And as much as I disagree with you on many of these things MFAWG I definitely recognize you as one who often does call a spade a spade even if it flies in the face of the standard liberal position.  I think we can disagree on this without your first sentence questioning my intelligence (the rest of your post is thoughtful and although I disagree with your conclusion on line #4 I have no problem with anything you say.)  Those digs are what bug people like me about some on the left.  I wish they'd a position without calling every conservative/Christian names.]
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gleek
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Re: [Politics/Religion] Paging Hannity...
« Reply #9 on: May 23, 2009, 06:19:38 PM »

What's fundamental is that disagreeing with the left earns you a label.

And supporting Obama earns you a label of "socialist" from the wingnuts.

It's interesting that you mention Maher in the same sentence as Hannity and Franken when Maher fancies himself a libertarian and is critical of both the right and left, although he's been far more critical of the right as of late (and with good reason obviously).

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Re: [Politics/Religion] Paging Hannity...
« Reply #10 on: May 23, 2009, 06:21:20 PM »

To be fair, neither side (if we are to believe there are only two) seems to have a monopoly on condescension, hurling epithets, or claiming intellectual superiority. I agree, if fewer insults and labels were bandied about, it would make everyone a lot more credible in their relative position. I'm not a "can't we all get along" type, per se, as there are hills I would choose to die on and I'm passionate about them and unwilling to compromise.

To me the question is not one of whether terrorists deserve to be tortured, or have otherwise asked for it, but whether America, with all of our claimed moral high ground can afford to have our reputation sullied in such a manner. We are a country who (supposedly) respects the law, and we signed the Geneva Convention. The Geneva Convention forbids torture. I don't think we, again as a law-respecting country, can simply say "yeah, but they aren't good people, so it's okay." I don't believe the way to fight barbarism is to act like barbarians. If we are truly to be the beacon on the hill that we seem to believe we are, that carries with it some responsibility to act that way.

I agree that Al Franken is a gob*feces*e.
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Re: [Politics/Religion] Paging Hannity...
« Reply #11 on: May 24, 2009, 09:28:35 AM »

What's fundamental is that disagreeing with the left earns you a label.

And supporting Obama earns you a label of "socialist" from the wingnuts.

Or facist.  Or both in the same sentence which is puzzling.  I certainly don't suggest that the situation is one sided.  There are people on the far right who bug me at least as much as the far lefties.  However, I hang out a little bit here and in both reality and fantasy land I have friends among you.  I don't care what the wingnuts call me.  I kinda do care what those friends and acquaintances call me.  I took a long break from this place in the election season partially because it was nothing but an onslaught of smarmy threads demeaning people who hold positions other than liberal ones.

It's interesting that you mention Maher in the same sentence as Hannity and Franken when Maher fancies himself a libertarian and is critical of both the right and left, although he's been far more critical of the right as of late (and with good reason obviously).

I was identifying gob*feces*es.  Maher can fancy himself whatever he wants but one thing is for sure - he's an *bunghole*.  As I was pointing out the extremists on all sides do not have my respect.  Maher, by any measure, is an extremist as are all people who hate everyone equally.

And if by "of late" you mean his entire career I'll agree with you.   Smiley
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Re: [Politics/Religion] Paging Hannity...
« Reply #12 on: May 24, 2009, 09:49:44 AM »

To me the question is not one of whether terrorists deserve to be tortured, or have otherwise asked for it, but whether America, with all of our claimed moral high ground can afford to have our reputation sullied in such a manner. We are a country who (supposedly) respects the law, and we signed the Geneva Convention. The Geneva Convention forbids torture. I don't think we, again as a law-respecting country, can simply say "yeah, but they aren't good people, so it's okay." I don't believe the way to fight barbarism is to act like barbarians. If we are truly to be the beacon on the hill that we seem to believe we are, that carries with it some responsibility to act that way.

Yeah, in general I think the example we set for the world is important.  When it comes to terrorism I think it's a different game.  I love to read Irish history and it is beyond doubt that Collins/Barry/Lynch/etc. and their guerilla warfare tactics were critical in a small, illegal army in an occupied land taking down the most powerful country in the world.  Obviously it helped that the UK were distracted by a little thing called WWI but you can't take it away from the Irish nationalists.  Even just the 20th century gives us many other examples of a guerilla army beating or stalemating a world power. 

But the terrorists we're dealing with don't even have a base reluctance to kill civilians.  In fact, that's an explicit goal of theirs.  They want to wipe out our will to fight by any means necessary.  They hate us and want to destroy us - all of us - and they put out videos telling us just that.  These sort take a different approach.  I'm not sure using torture will allow us to win (I think the war on terror is not winnable, it is only manageable at best) but it'll allow us to save civilian lives, perhaps large numbers of civilian lives.  Good enough for me.
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Re: [Politics/Religion] Paging Hannity...
« Reply #13 on: May 24, 2009, 10:10:14 AM »

And how's this for a lefty position...

I absolutely believe that a Manhatten Project for alternative fuels is our best bet for neutralizing those whackos.  Develop the technology, figure out how to make it affordable and give it away to the rest of the world.  Within five years the Gulf nations supporting terrorism will revert to the dung piles they were prior to 75-100 years ago. 

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Re: [Politics/Religion] Paging Hannity...
« Reply #14 on: May 24, 2009, 10:31:54 AM »

And how's this for a lefty position...

I absolutely believe that a Manhatten Project for alternative fuels is our best bet for neutralizing those whackos.  Develop the technology, figure out how to make it affordable and give it away to the rest of the world.  Within five years the Gulf nations supporting terrorism will revert to the dung piles they were prior to 75-100 years ago.

We should be developing alternative fuels for the purpose of saving this planet. As for the whackos, I'm more concerned about the whackos here who aren't ideologically much different from the whackos over there. The only difference is in the tactics used to achieve their goals.
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