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[Politics/Religion] Down goes Palin.

 
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Aske
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[Politics/Religion] Down goes Palin.
« on: February 17, 2009, 02:38:20 PM »

http://extratv.warnerbros...alin_abstinence_is_no.php
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Re: [Politics/Religion] Down goes Palin.
« Reply #1 on: February 17, 2009, 07:46:28 PM »

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"[****] is more and more accepted among kids my age."

Nope. Right in line with the 'Blame MTV' rhetoric of the 'Personal Responsibility' crowd.

She'll be on the 700 Club with her mother at some point, although where Mr. BabyDaddy and HIS mother are shuffled off to is anybody's guess.
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gleek
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Re: [Politics/Religion] Down goes Palin.
« Reply #2 on: February 17, 2009, 09:43:54 PM »

"Do as I say and not as I do" FTW!
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Uisce Beatha
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Re: [Politics/Religion] Down goes Palin.
« Reply #3 on: February 18, 2009, 05:25:25 AM »

I know it's fashionable to jump on anything Palin says... even if it's not Sarah Palin saying it... but anyone who thinks Bristol's facts are wrong is living in a fantasy world.  **** in high school is de rigueur these days.  They're in the midst of a full blown gonorrhea outbreak at the local down the street.  The Christian school my son used to attend has ~10% pregnancy rate in the high school.  The public junior high he goes to now used to carry the reputation for having a *staff review* culture with kids queuing up behind the building after school.  They brought in a hard ass principal a while back and he put a halt to that but I'm not naive enough to believe the kids are having their parties elsewhere.

Personal responsibility, not ****, is what's in short supply.  Ready access to abortions and a complete dearth of ostracism by society plays into it.  I won't debate anyone here about abortion but I stand firm on my belief that it's far too easy.  Throw in a girl (not young woman, girl) for whom an abortion isn't taboo and in many cases you have nothing more than a very uncomfortable afternoon and pile of mommie's money which could have scored her an iPod Touch [damn it  Angry].  In many, certainly not all, cases there is no remorse, no lasting emotional pain, no behavior modification, no disapproval from society.  Maybe Mrs. Grundy has her uses.

Unfortunately for Bristol she decided to have (unprotected) ****.   Fortunately, as far as I can see, she and the father are taking responsibility too.  It's going to be difficult for them and they will without doubt have many reasons to regret their actions.  They'll grow up very fast even with the deep pockets and connections of Bristol's parents.  I don't envy them.  But what Bristol said in the story seems pretty accurate to me.

I agree blaming MTV is ridiculous although it's hard to argue the influence of media on our kids these days.  If my children get in a similar fix it will be their error with perhaps some large degree of failure on the part of myself and their mother, and without question a boatload of tacit approval from society.  That can't be denied; it just has to be addressed by parents.

[go on, have a *fudge*, it's fun!!!, wink, wink, nudge, nudge, say no more]

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Walfredo
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Re: [Politics/Religion] Down goes Palin.
« Reply #4 on: February 18, 2009, 05:39:48 AM »

Didn't she also insinuate that it wasn't her "choice" to keep the baby, it was her mother's.  That's pretty sad.  Guilt is a powerful tool.
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Re: [Politics/Religion] Down goes Palin.
« Reply #5 on: February 18, 2009, 06:41:36 AM »

I agree with you UB (except the iPod Touch thing, just go for the iPhone). You get nothing from me.
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Aske
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Re: [Politics/Religion] Down goes Palin.
« Reply #6 on: February 18, 2009, 06:47:22 AM »

I know it's fashionable to jump on anything Palin says... even if it's not Sarah Palin saying it... but anyone who thinks Bristol's facts are wrong is living in a fantasy world.  **** in high school is de rigueur these days.  They're in the midst of a full blown gonorrhea outbreak at the local down the street.  The Christian school my son used to attend has ~10% pregnancy rate in the high school.  The public junior high he goes to now used to carry the reputation for having a *staff review* culture with kids queuing up behind the building after school.  They brought in a hard ass principal a while back and he put a halt to that but I'm not naive enough to believe the kids are having their parties elsewhere.

Personal responsibility, not ****, is what's in short supply.  Ready access to abortions and a complete dearth of ostracism by society plays into it.  I won't debate anyone here about abortion but I stand firm on my belief that it's far too easy.  Throw in a girl (not young woman, girl) for whom an abortion isn't taboo and in many cases you have nothing more than a very uncomfortable afternoon and pile of mommie's money which could have scored her an iPod Touch [damn it  Angry].  In many, certainly not all, cases there is no remorse, no lasting emotional pain, no behavior modification, no disapproval from society.  Maybe Mrs. Grundy has her uses.

Unfortunately for Bristol she decided to have (unprotected) ****.   Fortunately, as far as I can see, she and the father are taking responsibility too.  It's going to be difficult for them and they will without doubt have many reasons to regret their actions.  They'll grow up very fast even with the deep pockets and connections of Bristol's parents.  I don't envy them.  But what Bristol said in the story seems pretty accurate to me.

I agree blaming MTV is ridiculous although it's hard to argue the influence of media on our kids these days.  If my children get in a similar fix it will be their error with perhaps some large degree of failure on the part of myself and their mother, and without question a boatload of tacit approval from society.  That can't be denied; it just has to be addressed by parents.

[go on, have a *fudge*, it's fun!!!, wink, wink, nudge, nudge, say no more]

Roll Eyes

OK, the floor is yours.  Pile on libtards.   Wink


That's (was) my (entire) point.   Bristol just threw one of Sarah's major talking points and policy issues right out the window as being stupid.
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--  Chimpy McFlightsuit, CEO of Bu$hco Industries of 'Merka
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Re: [Politics/Religion] Down goes Palin.
« Reply #7 on: February 18, 2009, 06:56:53 AM »

  In many, certainly not all, cases there is no remorse, no lasting emotional pain, no behavior modification, no disapproval from society.  Maybe Mrs. Grundy has her uses.


Why should there be proscriptions and pogroms?  

Nearly half of all preg's in the US are unintended, and ~40% of unintended preg's end in abortion.  

The sheer numbers suggest that abortion is widely viewed as acceptable, and not necessarily a behavior that demands societal rebuke, lasting emotional pain, scarlet letter 'A's' tattooed on foreheads, whippings in the public square, etc and so forth.  

Indeed, the constitution specifically protects this majority from the demands of a puritanical minority.

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gleek
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Re: [Politics/Religion] Down goes Palin.
« Reply #8 on: February 18, 2009, 08:32:10 AM »

Last I heard you can get rubbers at the drug store but not abortions.
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Re: [Politics/Religion] Down goes Palin.
« Reply #9 on: February 18, 2009, 08:52:27 AM »

Saying in many cases there is no remorse, no pain, etc. and society doesn't ostracize the practice is quite possibly the dumbest *feces* I've heard on this site.  I'm just sayin'.
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Re: [Politics/Religion] Down goes Palin.
« Reply #10 on: February 18, 2009, 09:08:40 AM »

Saying in many cases there is no remorse, no pain, etc. and society doesn't ostracize the practice is quite possibly the dumbest *feces* I've heard on this site.  I'm just sayin'.

I won't comment on the no remorse, no pain because I have a very limited background with those who have been in this situation.

But.....abortion has been legal in this country for a long time and has spanned the presidencies of Reagan, Bush I and Bush II. I'm not sure I can reach any other opinion than society doesn't ostracize them. Obviously segments of the population do but around here you can get abortions almost as easily as, say, getting rubbers in a drug store.
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Re: [Politics/Religion] Down goes Palin.
« Reply #11 on: February 18, 2009, 09:30:45 AM »

Saying in many cases there is no remorse, no pain, etc. and society doesn't ostracize the practice is quite possibly the dumbest *feces* I've heard on this site.  I'm just sayin'.

I won't comment on the no remorse, no pain because I have a very limited background with those who have been in this situation.

But.....abortion has been legal in this country for a long time and has spanned the presidencies of Reagan, Bush I and Bush II. I'm not sure I can reach any other opinion than society doesn't ostracize them. Obviously segments of the population do but around here you can get abortions almost as easily as, say, getting rubbers in a drug store.
Fair enough.  But your experience is very limited because people don't talk about it for fear of being ostracized.  People don't tell their friends that they had one, they don't tell their family, they don't tell their kids they did birth, they don't tell a soul.  It is a dark secret they hold onto forever.  If society didn't care why then all the secrecy.  Just because it is "relatively" easy to have the procedure done, doesn't mean society accepts it.  Maybe my view is based on a narrow segment of the population being in Oklahoma.  But I feel the societal pressure to, if done, never talk about it to anyone under any circumstances.
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You know that I am the stallion, mang.
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spacey
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Re: [Politics/Religion] Down goes Palin.
« Reply #12 on: February 18, 2009, 02:57:21 PM »

As a former stupid teenager, who made a stupid mistake with another stupid teenager, and who after much deliberation and discussion mutually chose to take advantage of a safe, legal, and readily available abortion, please allow me to submit that it is not easy, it is not without remorse, and it is very much frowned upon by a large segment of society. Granted this was nearly 20 years ago, and MTV still largely showed music videos, but I don't honestly believe the emotional cost of such a decision is any less today, nor is the general attitude by society any more permissive.

It is only recently, in fact, that I have chosen to speak of it at all, to anyone other than the other former stupid teenager in question, with whom I remain very good friends. She will tell you unequivocally that we made the right choice, as will I, though we both agree it is not necessarily a choice in which we take a lot of pride.

[edit] Not to belabor the point, but Walfredo is to a large degree right. People simply don't talk about it out of fear of being ostracized. If nothing else, you immediately take on the stench, in many eyes, of at the very least being a *fudge* up who is simply taking the easy way out, if not an outright murderer who deserves a spot on death row with the worst people society has ever produced. And granted, perhaps being from Utah my experience may be just as tainted as Walfredo's. I don't know another soul who has admitted having been through it, but I suspect I know people who have who simply don't talk about it. I planned on taking it to the grave with me, until I had to come clean with my wife because we're having fertility problems and I had to confess that I have pretty good evidence that my boys can, in fact, swim. After telling her, I've finally decided that I refuse to contine to live my life in fear of what small minded people will think about what two frightened teenagers decided was the right thing to do for their collective futures. But please don't tell me it's easy.
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stroh
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Re: [Politics/Religion] Down goes Palin.
« Reply #13 on: February 18, 2009, 03:14:12 PM »

As a former stupid teenager, who made a stupid mistake with another stupid teenager, and who after much deliberation and discussion mutually chose to take advantage of a safe, legal, and readily available abortion, please allow me to submit that it is not easy, it is not without remorse, and it is very much frowned upon by a large segment of society. Granted this was nearly 20 years ago, and MTV still largely showed music videos, but I don't honestly believe the emotional cost of such a decision is any less today, nor is the general attitude by society any more permissive.




X2.

 I do not speak of it at all.  I will say it haunts me to this day.
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Uisce Beatha
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Re: [Politics/Religion] Down goes Palin.
« Reply #14 on: February 18, 2009, 05:41:02 PM »

Saying in many cases there is no remorse, no pain, etc. and society doesn't ostracize the practice is quite possibly the dumbest *feces* I've heard on this site.  I'm just sayin'.

Excellent counterpoint and masterfully phrased to boot.  Thumbs Up

Aske, understood.  Sorry I took your intent wrong.

Spacey, stroh, tough choices to make that's for sure.  I'm not standing on a soap box judging anyone especially stupid kids making stupid kid mistakes.  I made plenty myself and dodged God knows how many bullets to make it to adulthood intact and unencumbered.  I do believe the stigma attached to an abortion in 2009 is a fraction of that in 1982 when I graduated high school.  In some circles it is indeed non-existent.  In another 27 years.... Huh?  Is universal, rebuke-free acceptance a good thing?  Not for me it isn't and I firmly believe we're well on the way there. 

To each his own.
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"If you're darker than a caramel, Reverend Al speaks for you." - Aasif Mandvi
"Well, you can tell by the way I use my walk, I'm a woman's man: no time to talk." - stroh
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